I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

nolemmings · #1 06-21-2010, 08:52 PM

The other was Easterly, who hit a double play ball that forced Lajoie (who hit the ball that got JoeJax out) at second, but who advanced to second on a wild relay throw. Next guy up hit a comebacker, and was thrown out at first.

So, if the t202 photo came from this game, only one guy was out at third for Cleveland, and that was JoeJAx.

packs · #2 06-21-2010, 11:43 PM

Wasn't the famous Conlon photo of Cobb sliding into third taken in 1909? I remember reading it was 1909. So if it is, and that photo from 1909 appears in the center of the T202, who's to say that the photo on this T202 was taken from the year before? There is absolutely no way to determine and extremely little chance it is Joe Jax. You guys have limited it down to one single game in one year, but how do you know the photo was even taken in 1911? What would suggest it was? There are countless cards in countless sets from the time that reused old photos. Clearly this set has in some cases.

nolemmings · #3 06-21-2010, 11:59 PM

I believe it was determined that Harry Lord would not have played for Chicago until the last two months of 1910, and that the Indians did not host the White Sox during that two month stretch, such that the photo was from 1911.

53Browns · #4 06-22-2010, 08:02 AM

Now all these cards on Ebay have them tagged as "Shoeless Joe" cards. Streeeeeeeetch. Just saying.

FUBAR · #5 06-22-2010, 10:57 AM

and JOEJAX would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids! Jinkies!

Misunderestimated · #6 06-22-2010, 11:04 PM

I can't believe that I didn't read this thread sooner ... Actually I skimmed some of it so please excuse any redundancies ...
the facts that that there is no side panel of JJ in the set is not explained by the fact that the side panels are with 1 exception* were limited to cards in the T205 set (the portraits were apparently created for that set ) and JJ was not included in that set. The T205 set drawings in turn would not have included JJ since he was not in the majors in 1910.
The center photos don't always identify the people in the pictures they often focus on whomever the title references and talk about him. Here the title player was Harry Lord so his "victim" in the play was not identified. The same holds true of the Elberfeld center photo cards.
I think someone may have noted this before but many of the photos in the T202 set appear in other places and at least one (the most famous one) was taken by Charles Conlon so perhaps it is possible to figure out from somewhere else -- some photo book or archive -- who Lord was tagging.

One other thought -- it stands to reason that the photos in the set (there are 76 of them as I recall) were not taken at different games. So maybe the mystery can be solved (or at least further illuminated) by figuring out which games between the Cleveland and the Chisox were in other photos (if there are any) in the set....
Anyway over the weekend I'm going to look at my T202s and see if I can add anything to this project.

----
* Smokey Joe Wood whose debut was in 1911 was even more celebrated than JJs (among other reasons: he played for Boston not Cleveland)

packs · #7 06-23-2010, 01:48 AM

Harry Lord joined the White Sox on August 9th 1910 and appeared in 44 games for them that season, every game from 101 to 156. In all 44 games he played third base. Of these 44 games, the White Sox played Cleveland 4 times. According to Baseball-Reference, Lord played in each game.

There was a double header on September 5th.
Then a 2 game series was played over October 1st and 2nd.

This photo could be from any of those four games. Joe Jackson made his debut for Cleveland on July 30th and played in 20 games that year. Did he play in any of these four games? I don't know but you would have to if you were going to say Joe Jax was caught at third in 1910 as well.

brett · #8 06-23-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

I think someone may have noted this before but many of the photos in the T202 set appear in other places and at least one (the most famous one) was taken by Charles Conlon so perhaps it is possible to figure out from somewhere else -- some photo book or archive -- who Lord was tagging.

It's already been figured out and documented earlier in this post from a 1911 Cleveland newspaper picture. Look back through this thread and you'll see it.

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