T3 Turkey Red Scarcity List

[majordanby]

the rhoades is typically perceived as a difficult card to attain. However, it has been up for sale quite a bit in recent years. This is likely correlated with the increased demand and popularity of the set. I actually purchased a Rhoades at what i thought was a very good price a few years back. I sold it due to financial reasons for a slight loss.

I've found the bransfield and the kleinow to be tougher to find. The HOF'ers, specifically Speaker, Evers, Johnson, Mathewson, Lajoie and Cobb, generally are fairly expensive, even at lower grades. horizontal cards also are relatively expensive, even for non HOF'ers. Whenever i do see a kleinow up for auction, it goes for higher than i expected/want.

i started collecting this set at the unfortunate time it was hot only to see the prices of these cards dampen quite a bit since then. i've been forced to sell quite a few of them, some at a loss, due to financial constraints.

try doing a search on this forum for "turkey scarcity." there are a few posts discussing t3 scarcity, specifically related to backs.

[FrankWakefield]

Still haven't broken him out. I think Mr. Lipset had it about right, no rarities, but he put a premium on Rhoades. I don't doubt a disproportionate number of Rhoades have been graded, and maybe regraded. (I cannot understand why folks let the 3PG folks get by with calling their reports 'Population Reports', when what is reported is the number of times they've graded a certain type of card and not the number of those cards that they've graded.) I anticipate 5 or 6 dozen postings of scans of this common T3...

[Rob D.]

Though anecdotal evidence and a poll of 11 collectors nearly 30 years ago is compelling, the fact remains that enough T3 Rhoades cards have been for sale or auctioned the past couple years to bring into question its perceived scarcity within the set. No one said it's a common T3.

[FrankWakefield]

You could be right, Rob.


Mr. Lipset was right about some other things 30 years ago... notwithstanding the anecdotal methodology that he employed with the assistance of Edward Wharton-Tigar [check out his Wikipedia page], Jack Carson, Bill Haber, Ron Oser, Don Steinbach, John Thorn, and others. Those were some anecdote-telling fellas. Maybe Lew got it right about card #114. 11 collections of T3s, averaging about 66 cards each of the 100 baseball cards (or 105 with variations), any given card appeared at least 6 times but for card #114 which appeared only twice. Or, excluding Rhoades they could have together assembled 6 complete sets, but only 2 sets if Rhoades is included.

[jtschantz]

I've collected T3's (HOFers and Cleveland players) on and off for almost 30 years. I have only owned (or had the chance to buy) one nice Rhoades T3 in all of those years. Here it is.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

You could be right, Rob.


Mr. Lipset was right about some other things 30 years ago... notwithstanding the anecdotal methodology that he employed with the assistance of Edward Wharton-Tigar [check out his Wikipedia page], Jack Carson, Bill Haber, Ron Oser, Don Steinbach, John Thorn, and others. Those were some anecdote-telling fellas. Maybe Lew got it right about card #114. 11 collections of T3s, averaging about 66 cards each of the 100 baseball cards (or 105 with variations), any given card appeared at least 6 times but for card #114 which appeared only twice. Or, excluding Rhoades they could have together assembled 6 complete sets, but only 2 sets if Rhoades is included.

When I mentioned anecdotal evidence, I wasn't referring to Lew.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by majordanby

the rhoades is typically perceived as a difficult card to attain. However, it has been up for sale quite a bit in recent years. This is likely correlated with the increased demand and popularity of the set. I actually purchased a Rhoades at what i thought was a very good price a few years back. I sold it due to financial reasons for a slight loss.

I've found the bransfield and the kleinow to be tougher to find. The HOF'ers, specifically Speaker, Evers, Johnson, Mathewson, Lajoie and Cobb, generally are fairly expensive, even at lower grades. horizontal cards also are relatively expensive, even for non HOF'ers. Whenever i do see a kleinow up for auction, it goes for higher than i expected/want.

i started collecting this set at the unfortunate time it was hot only to see the prices of these cards dampen quite a bit since then. i've been forced to sell quite a few of them, some at a loss, due to financial constraints.

try doing a search on this forum for "turkey scarcity." there are a few posts discussing t3 scarcity, specifically related to backs.

It may be just semantics regarding Rhoades....certainly it seems as if Rhoades is more difficult than commons. Has anyone had difficulty locating Bransfield or Kelinow? Just curious.

[T3s]

Hi all,

Nice to get some T3 chat now and then. Rhoades is scarce, but simply because it's a "short-print" of sorts, not being found with the "ad-back". I don't have a theory as to why not. Assuming the cards were printed on sheets, it seems like even if Rhoades was requested less by collectors early in the second series run, they wouldn't have changed the sheet. I won't contradict Rob - they are out there, but relatively hard to find.

If anyone finds a Rhoades with an ad-back, I'd love to see it (and own it). As an aside, someone got a steal recently by winning the Rhoades proof in the most recent REA auction. I missed it, but would gladly pay more than it went for (anyone, anyone?)

The first series "action" poses are also difficult to find, no doubt about it. Meyers being pretty tough amongst that group.

McIntyre (Brooklyn) is tough, as is Paskert (Cin & Phil).

Without question, the two hardest cards are Tenney (NY & Bos) and Doolin. No doubt about it. Of the two, I'd give the nod for hardest to the Doolin.

Sorry for not keeping my site up to date. However, aside from the buy-sell page, not much new to say about T3s overall.

Hope that helps,
Craig Diamond

[Republicaninmass]

I have been working on the set for a number of years and I have never seen a Rhodes for a "common" price. The other two tough ones appear to be Bransfield and Davy Jones (last sale $331 for a PSA 1 4/01/07) for some reason. I did get the Tenny Ny/bos by accident in a beckett holder and it will go into my set at some point. Graded I am 78% and still have 6-7 raw to add.

also working on the t9's where is seems Marto and Jeanette are tough to locate

[Bridwell]

There have been over 3,900 Turkey Reds graded by PSA now. So, certainly this is another source of information for you. It seems virtually every card has at least 20 graded now, so none of these is super scarce.

I agree with Craig that Tenney, McIntire, Paskert, Doolin are some of the lowest populations and there were 2 variations of these cards so each type seems pretty tough if you feel you have to collect both variations.

Collecting all the back variations is another way to make this set super tough.

[T3s]

Hi again,

As noted, the PSA pop report can be valuable from a macro view. For instance, if you simply look at the number of 2nd series cards graded versus 1st series cards, you see a real difference.

However, even 3900 submissions (don't forget that the PSA pop report includes T9s as well) is a relatively low number. I used to follow it pretty closely and know there have been a few instances (Rhoades for instance) where a few cards were re-submitted many times in hopes of a better grade - thus inflating the pop. Also, in some cases (McIntyre - Brook), PSA did not do a good job in properly labeling the cards (I once had 4 of them, all labeled incorrectly). Thankfully, to decipher which Paskert, Tenney or Doolin pop you are looking at, one can simply look to the "checklist back" or "Turkey Red back" notation and see the difference. I guess my point is, that when dealing with the scarcer cards in the set, the pop report may not tell the whole tale.

I can say that I haven't checked the pop report for at least a year, but my own two cents on other difficult cards - Jones, Wilson, Bescher (and maybe a few others which I'll keep a secret for now).

As a final aside, if one can find a Turkey Red back of Bell, Browne or Sullivan (or Rhoades), please let me know.

Happy Collecting,
Craig Diamond

[Republicaninmass]

I agree on the Wilson as well, I picked up a cheap SGC authentic for now. I had forgot about that one...and a couple others I am keeping secret

[tedzan]

Why Bob Rhoades is in this set is a mystery to me, as his Major Lge. career ended in the Summer of 1909.

The first series of T3's were issued some time in 1910. And, when ALC realized Rhoades' career ended, ALC
short-printed his card.


TED Z