Should Bud Selig Overturn Jim Joyce's Call?

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

As has already been pointed out, there is precedent for doing just that - the George Brett Pine Tar incident.

When almost everyone else in the world thinks the call should be overturned, not overturning it will just make those people feel it is one more example of the commissioner sitting on his hands rather than taking an action, which he has the power to do, that could right a wrong.

Conversely, if he does reverse the call and award the perfect game, I think it will have a very beneficial effect. It's a "feel good" move that should not be ignored.

First of all, Pine Tar incident was overturned because it was a "rules interpretation" and those are the only rulings that can be overturned, not a judgement call on a player out or safe at a base (that happens about 35 times per game).

Second, the commissioner is not sitting on his hands, he doesn't have the power to overturn a judgement call on the field.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Second, the commissioner is not sitting on his hands, he doesn't have the power to overturn a judgement call on the field.

If he doesn't have the power by some document, I don't think anyone would argue if he took the common-sense, good-sportsmanship step. This is a game. Games are supposed to make you feel good. A lot of people feel angry about that game. He should make them feel good.

[barrysloate]

It's very odd that instant replay can be used to overturn a home run call but nothing else. What is the common sense behind that? Why couldn't a manager have say one challenge a game, like they do in the NFL? Or why couldn't there be one umpire in a booth somewhere watching instant replay? If there were no controversial calls then the game would proceed as it always does (very slowly indeed). But if there was an obvious mistake he would have the power to fix it. Not necessarily every ball and strike, but a significant play within certain parameters. Something along those lines couldn't really hurt the game.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

If he doesn't have the power by some document, I don't think anyone would argue if he took the common-sense, good-sportsmanship step. This is a game. Games are supposed to make you feel good. A lot of people feel angry about that game. He should make them feel good.

So where do you draw the line....if this wasn't going to be a perfect game, but rather a 1 or 2 hitter, do you review it?

If it was going to be a no-hitter, but not a perfect game, do you review it?

If it was just a regular game do you review it?

If a pitcher has a perfect game going in the sixth, do you start reviewing any and all close calls?

Where does it stop? Are you saying only in this rare instance of a possible perfect game being broken up with 2 outs in the ninth? Is that the only time you review it?

[barrysloate]

The NFL has instituted a rule that allows certain plays to be reviewed, and most fans of the game feel it has worked. Baseball could do the same thing, although a good deal of thought would have to be put into how to do it.

Not every blown call is the same. Umps probably miss at least 10-20 balls and strikes calls per game. It would be inefficient to review every pitch that was two inches off the plate and called a strike.

But what if last night Galarraga had a 3-2 count on the last hitter, threw the next pitch right down the center of the plate, and it was called ball four. Can we agree that there are some situations that are more critical than others, and deserve closer scrutiny?

Sure, umpires miss safe and out calls every day. There are hundreds of them during the course of the season. But would anybody really say that what Joyce did last night was just your garden variety missed call? Most missed calls are forgotten five minutes later; the one last night will be remembered for a generation.

I do think some plays are more crucial than others that appear to be similar. Couldn't there be some way to assess this and improve the game?

I'm using a simple premise here: it's always better to get the call right than to get it wrong. If the NFL found a way to cut down on errors by reviewing key plays, why can't baseball?

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

If he doesn't have the power by some document, I don't think anyone would argue if he took the common-sense, good-sportsmanship step. This is a game. Games are supposed to make you feel good. A lot of people feel angry about that game. He should make them feel good.

? A lot of people feel angry about a lot of games, should they get reversed? I think the poise that the pitcher had was admirable. Through this mistake he was given the opportunity to show a great amount of character which will be remembered more than if the call had been right and he had pitched a perfect game.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Second, the commissioner is not sitting on his hands, he doesn't have the power to overturn a judgement call on the field.

Of course he does. The Commissioner has the ultimate power to do anything he deems to be "in the best interest of Major League Baseball."

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Of course he does. The Commissioner has the ultimate power to do anything he deems to be "in the best interest of Major League Baseball."

And you think "best interest" involves overturning a routine judgement call/play?

[barrysloate]

Do you genuinely think last night's play was routine? I don't.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Do you genuinely think last night's play was routine? I don't.

For a professional this was a routine play.....now, the circumstance was far from routine but I do think it was a fairly routine play that we see hundreds of times a season. (if I were to watch hundreds of plays )

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by Leon

For a professional this was a routine play.....now, the circumstance was far from routine but I do think it was a fairly routine play that we see hundreds of times a season. (if I were to watch hundreds of plays )

I couldn't have said it better myself. Absolutey correct.

[barrysloate]

But Leon- the circumstances are exactly what I am talking about. To again use the NFL as an example: it is said that there is offensive holding on nearly every play from scrimmage. Does even one person believe that therefore every play should be reviewed? No, it would kill the game. But the league was able to implement a review that works efficiently and helps get critical calls right. That call last night was critical.

There are dozens of errors made every day in the major leagues, and thousands in the course of a season. An error is a routine outcome as a result of a batted ball. But would you say Bill Buckner's misplay of Mookie's ground ball was a routine play? No, it was a monumental play. Not all plays that look the same are equal.

[tesitzes24]

I voted Yes, that the call should be overturned, but I clicked it with my eyes closed, because I do agree that it would be setting a dangerous precedent.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by pgellis

And you think "best interest" involves overturning a routine judgement call/play?

I think having 3 of the 21 perfect games in history occur within a month is far from routine.

I think last night's game, and the play that should have ended it, were routine, only until the incorrect call was made. At that point, they ceased being routine.

I am all for getting things correct, and if that means correcting correctable errors, I am generally for it. If things had unfolded differently last night I might have felt differently. If the following batters had gotten hits and/or scored runs, I may have felt differently. But they didn't. That makes this the easiest of errors to correct. Batter is out. Game is over. Next guys AB doesn't count. Perfect game goes in the book. Apologize to the kid for ruining his celebration.


However, I feel that both sides of this argument have valid points. What isn't valid is saying that the Commissioner doesn't have the power to change it. He does. Whether he should or not is what's debatable.

[pitchernut]

One thing left out of all this is that if the 1st baseman had played his position and left the ball to the 2nd baseman we would not be debating this. So, imo Detroit did make an error?

[mybuddyinc]

No -- It's Baseball.