Shoeless Joe Jax DIVERSION, why isn't he in any 1911-1917 major T or E-card sets ?

[gabrinus]

As an Arkansas native I would strongly disagree that the Cotton and Delta areas of Arkansas would not have been considered Deep South in 1910. Little Rock as well. More than other "Southern" states. Coal Hill would definitely not have, however. Which might explain why Boss Schmdit beat up Ty Cobb for assaulting a black groundskeeper and his wife. The coal areas of Arkansas produced a lot of good boxers...as Cobb found out.

[tedzan]

I have always considered Arkansas as part of the "deep South". But, the accepted "book" definition only includes Alabama,
Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

Thanx for the Boss Schmidt/Cobb story.


TED Z

[tbob]

Ted, Gabrinus beat me to the punch. There is a world of difference between Western and more specifically Northwestern and Eastern and Southern Arkansas. The Northwest part of the State is more akin to Missouri which it borders and Western Arkansas is similar to Eastern Oklahoma. This might explain that why, like Kentucky, there were pockets of Unionist sympathy in the State during the War. Eastern and Southern Arkansas border on Missisippi and Louisiana and are absolutely Deep South. Despite this fact, Arkansans absolutely consider themselves Southerners and the State was a member of the Confederacy in the Second War of Independence from 1861-1865.

[slidekellyslide]

Interesting thread...and I think Tim nailed it when he said it was simply a matter of timing. Southerners made up a small percentage of Major League baseball in 1909-11 and as such made up a small percentage of the Major Leaguers shown on T206 cards. To think that an American tobacco company interested in selling lots of cigarettes would snub a southern born superstar because of Southern prejudice just doesn't make sense at all. If that were so then why not snub the greatest Southern born superstar of them all in Cobb?? I think it's even more laughable to state that they would snub Alexander because of his drinking and epilepsy. How the ATC would even know about his epilepsy when it was never written about back then I don't know...and his drinking was certainly never a big problem in his younger days and probably overblown in the latter part of his career....There are some legendary drunks in the T206 set...highly doubtful the execs or employees of the ATC were teetotalers.

I think that the simple explanation is almost always the correct one when dealing with speculation.

[tedzan]

Please be more specific regarding your......
"To think that an American tobacco company interested in selling lots of cigarettes would snub a southern born
superstar because of Southern prejudice just doesn't make sense at all."

Are you referring to Cobb or Jackson ?


TED Z

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Please be more specific regarding your......
"To think that an American tobacco company interested in selling lots of cigarettes would snub a southern born
superstar because of Southern prejudice just doesn't make sense at all."

Are you referring to Cobb or Jackson ?


TED Z

Ted, I'm referring to Jackson...your theory is that he was snubbed because of Southern prejudice. I don't buy that at all when you consider they included Cobb in the set and many other southerners. Heck, they included players from the Southern League for their Southern brands. What evidence do you have that anyone at the ATC had a Southern prejudice?

[tedzan]

Do you know how many of the near 400 different players in the T206 set are from the so-called deep South ?

There are a mere 16, that represents only 4 %.

And, the questions I have regarding Cobb are limited to the HINDU backs which there are NONE !

Look, I'm not making this up....the predjudice in that era towards ballplayers from the deep South is well documented.


TED Z

[slidekellyslide]

What is the total percentage of major leaguers from the Deep South in 1909-11? I'll bet it's close to 4%.

Southern born players even with major league talent were more likely to stay in the South and play in Southern leagues...the same can be said for West Coast players staying in the PCL and NWL...sure there were some who went for the bigger money of the Major Leagues, but people were more inclined to stay close to home in the early 20th century.

I'll ask again since this is your theory...what evidence do you have that the ATC had a Southern prejudice?

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Do you know how many of the near 400 different players in the T206 set are from the so-called deep South ?

There are a mere 16, that represents only 4 %.

TED Z

That's a misuse of statistics as I tried to point out yesterday.

Given the two additional players that we learned were also born in Georgia the total number of T206 players from that state are 7.

Using Ted's statistical analysis to determine bias the ATC hated New Jersey who also had 7 players in the T206 set. Neighboring Pennsylvania and New York had over 100 between them!! Why the bias against New Jersey?

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[martyogelvie]

I like your theory Ted. No doubt their were prejudices that existed both ways. there were just as many Southerners who distrusted Northerners and its possible that Jackson didn't want to sign another contract with any more of those damn Yankees.