T207....indeed a strange set....let' talk about it ?

[Bridwell]

After the anti-trust breakup of ATC in 1911, the number of tobacco baseball sets declined. The T207 set was 'caught in the middle' with a set in development. The timing of releasing this set in early 1912 probably had something to do with all the mysteries.

ATC was probably restructuring and we all know how chaotic that can be.

Ron R

[tedzan]

I have a simple answer to why there are so many players missing in this set that were in the T206 and T205 sets.
Recall my comments from my initial post in this thread......

"I have always thought that this set was not printed by American Lithographic. In fact there is another 1912 set
that closely resembles (front & back) the T207 set, and that is the Imperial Tobacco (C46) set issued in Canada.
I'd say that these two sets were produced by the same (unknown) printing firm."

This would explain the missing stars and other guys in the T207 set, which were in the 2 preceding T-sets. Since,
the new printers most likely did not have the Rights to portray these players.

If my theory is correct, I sure wish we could discover who printed the T207 cards ?


TED Z

[Bridwell]

Hi Ted,

About 85 of the 200 players in T207 were also in T206. That is a low percentage for only about 3 years later. Of the 85 T206 players, I don't believe any of the same poses or artwork were used for the T207's. It makes sense to think that a different printer/designer was used.

I don't think ATC or the other printer could have blocked the approval of T206 players to be in the set. Otherwise, those 85 would not be in T207, which is still a large number of players. It's possible a dispute occurred and the T207 set was halted before another series could be printed.

Ron

[marcdelpercio]

Do we know for certain which cigarette brands remained with which companies after the ATC break-up? My theory is that the T207's are a half-aborted kind of set that was cobbled together in the midst of a chaotic time for the ATC and the subsequent post-breakup separate companies. I'm sure there were many legal ramifications of what advertising backs were allowed to be displayed which may explain the relatively few different backs as compared to the T205 and T206 sets. Perhaps Broadleaf, Cycle, Recruit, and Napoleon remained with one manufacturer while the Anonymous cards (Coupon and another brand distributing from Factory 25?) and possibly Red Cross were assigned to a different company, thus the extreme scarcity of Red Cross and anomaly of lack of advertising on the Anons.

On Ted's theory, I know from reading the original anti-trust lawsuit that ATC was a large stockholder in Imperial Tobacco so perhaps the 1912 C46 set (which also lacks advertising and has never conclusively been proven to be an Imperial Tobacco release) was printed concurrently with the stylistically similar T207 set and a different print company besides ALC was used due to whatever resources were legally available to the sub-companies that were releasing these sets.

[Bridwell]

Hi Marc,
I have a partial list of ATC brands that went to Liggett & Myers in 1911. It includes Coupon, Piedmont and Fatima, and some others, then says '15 additional smaller domestic brands'.

I have Recruit, Napoleon and Coupon packs with Liggett & Myers printed on them. I also have Broadleaf and Cycle packs with no manufacturer listed, but those were probably made pre-1911. Broadleaf and Cycle did go to L & M in 1911, as well, I believe. I found one other web site that said they went to L & M. No idea about Red Cross. I suspect Red Cross went to Lorillard, since that's who made Red Cross when ATC acquired them.

Ron R

[marcdelpercio]

Thanks for that info Ron. That would seem to exclude Coupon from my theory as one of the Anonymous brands (unless they simply chose not to advertise for some other reason) but all other brands would still fit and if Red Cross did indeed return to Lorillard, that may explain the extremely short print run. I also find it interesting that Piedmont was one of the L&M brands yet is not an advertising back on T207's after being the flagship brand for T206 and T205. I wonder if there is a chance that they were the Anonymous Factory 25 brand as they primarily distributed from Factory 25 on the T205's and T206's. Maybe Piedmont and Coupon were originally set to be T207 advertising brands along with their fellow L&M brands of Recruit, Cycle, Broadleaf, and Napoleon but something occurred to cause that brand to be removed from display.

[Bridwell]

After the break-up of American Tobacco Company in May 1911, perhaps Liggett & Myers would have been required to re-sign the players to a new authorization agreement in order to use their names and images. Perhaps the players were more difficult to sign, after they saw how popular the T206's had become. Maybe the players wanted compensation. By 1911 some players were getting paid to endorse products and the game had increased in popularity compared to 1908. The players who weren't pictured on a card yet were easier to sign, if Liggett & Myers wasn't offering any payment.

I don't think the players received any payment for the use of their images on T206. The famous Neal Ball letter asked for his permission but doesn't offer any payment.

Ron R