Shoeless Joe Jax DIVERSION, why isn't he in any 1911-1917 major T or E-card sets ?

[tedzan]

Regarding your......
" Boss Schmidt was from Coal Hill, Arkansas.
Ooops, sorry Ron, you already had him listed. There was a flood of talent from Arkansas in the major leagues but it
didn't begin until the 30's and 40's with Hall of Famers Travis Jackson, Arky Vaughn, Dizzy Dean, Bill Dickey, etc. "

Since, Arkansas was not considered the deep South back in the T206 era, I would of expected more BB players from
Arkansas in the T206 set. All this changed after WWI, where the early predjudices by some of the ball club owners
began to vanish. And, as you noted, this new "Southern wave" in BB began in the 1920's and 1930's.

By the way, don't forget my favorite Arkansan (besides Bill Dickey)....Johnny Sain.

TED Z

[tedzan]

OK, you naysayers, if there is no hint of prejudice against Cobb at the Rochester plant, then I want to know WHY
his T205 and T206 cards were not inserted in cigarette packs produced at this Factory #649 plant ?

When, as we know, the following regarding T206 cards of Cobb......

Green Portrait..........8 different backs
Bat on Shoulder.......8 different backs
Bat off Shoulder.....16 different backs
Red Portrait...........22 different backs......ALC's "signature picture"

Furthermore, every major T206 star in the 150 series is found with the Brown HINDU back, and most major stars
in the 460 series are found with Red HINDU backs.

Perhaps, you do not find this strange, but I find this to be very, very strange. So, all I am simply asking.....does
anyone here have an explanation why none of the four T206 Cobb's, or the T205 Cobb were printed with HINDU
backs ?


TED Z

[ctownboy]

Ted,

I am not sure about the timing but maybe it was because Cobb was going to have his own smoking tobacco (Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back) and instead of cannibalizing sales they decided to NOT print anymore cards of him for the T206 set and just do the Cobb back cards. Then, when that for some reason failed, it was too late to do factory 649 cards.

David

[tedzan]

Your thought is interesting in that would only apply to the Red Portrait Cobb. The Ty Cobb back Cobb was printed
and issued in the Spring of 1910. American Litho. (ALC) used the Red portrait picture, since it was being printed at
that same time. But, between the Spring and Winter of 1910, ALC printed the Red portrait Cobb with many tobacco
advertising backs. However, for whatever reasons, ALC did not print this Cobb with the Red HINDU back. I conclude
that the Rochester plant (Factory #649) did not want Cobb on their advertising premiums.

The Bat Off Shoulder Cobb exists with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back and the UZIT back; therefore, it will not be
found with a Red HINDU back (because this HINDU back is mutually exclusive with the AB 460 and UZIT backs).

The Green portrait and the Bat On Shoulder versions of Cobb were printed in 1909, and for whatever reasons, were
not printed with the Brown HINDU backs.


Thanks for your interesting post.

TED Z

[gabrinus]

As an Arkansas native I would strongly disagree that the Cotton and Delta areas of Arkansas would not have been considered Deep South in 1910. Little Rock as well. More than other "Southern" states. Coal Hill would definitely not have, however. Which might explain why Boss Schmdit beat up Ty Cobb for assaulting a black groundskeeper and his wife. The coal areas of Arkansas produced a lot of good boxers...as Cobb found out.

[tedzan]

I have always considered Arkansas as part of the "deep South". But, the accepted "book" definition only includes Alabama,
Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

Thanx for the Boss Schmidt/Cobb story.


TED Z

[tbob]

Ted, Gabrinus beat me to the punch. There is a world of difference between Western and more specifically Northwestern and Eastern and Southern Arkansas. The Northwest part of the State is more akin to Missouri which it borders and Western Arkansas is similar to Eastern Oklahoma. This might explain that why, like Kentucky, there were pockets of Unionist sympathy in the State during the War. Eastern and Southern Arkansas border on Missisippi and Louisiana and are absolutely Deep South. Despite this fact, Arkansans absolutely consider themselves Southerners and the State was a member of the Confederacy in the Second War of Independence from 1861-1865.

[slidekellyslide]

Interesting thread...and I think Tim nailed it when he said it was simply a matter of timing. Southerners made up a small percentage of Major League baseball in 1909-11 and as such made up a small percentage of the Major Leaguers shown on T206 cards. To think that an American tobacco company interested in selling lots of cigarettes would snub a southern born superstar because of Southern prejudice just doesn't make sense at all. If that were so then why not snub the greatest Southern born superstar of them all in Cobb?? I think it's even more laughable to state that they would snub Alexander because of his drinking and epilepsy. How the ATC would even know about his epilepsy when it was never written about back then I don't know...and his drinking was certainly never a big problem in his younger days and probably overblown in the latter part of his career....There are some legendary drunks in the T206 set...highly doubtful the execs or employees of the ATC were teetotalers.

I think that the simple explanation is almost always the correct one when dealing with speculation.