T207....indeed a strange set....let' talk about it ?

[marcdelpercio]

Ted,
That's a very interesting observation about the similarities with the C46 set. There are some definite parallels. Obviously the color scheme is quite similar and not used by any other tobacco sets of the era. C46 is a minor league set that features many players with major league experience while the T207's are a major league set featuring many players that barely if ever made it out of the minors. The quirky write-ups on the backs also seem as if they could have been done by the same writer(s) with many similarities in phrasing.

There was a discussion recently about the lack of evidence that the C46's were actually released by Imperial Tobacco so that also adds to the mysteries. I have many examples of other Imperial Tobacco hockey, lacrosse, and non-sports cards released during these years and none share major similarities in print design with the C46's.

Congrats on completing your set Mike! The T207's are my all-time favorite set. I have been working on this set for 10 years (and have gotten several from you during that time ) and I still need about 50 more cards. So I definitely can appreciate your difficult achievement.

[tbob]

Mike- Thanks for the kind words and congratulations are definitely in order for your completing this set. I have always felt that this set is a real challenge. If you have enough money you can complete other sets like the T205 and T206 but completing the T207 set is a journey. I know some collectors don't like the dark brooding backgrounds and colors and others don't like it because Matty, Cobb, Wagner and others don't make an appearance, but I don't think there is a set around that is more attractive when you can find cards in the set in really nice shape. Besides, where else are you going to find some of the obscure players in the set? The Tinker and Donlan cards are beautiful and so many of the tough back cards feature striking, if almost surreal, pictures of the players.
The set is completeable but it is a journey. The 205s and 206s were a snap compared to this one. There are hidden minefields of scarcity even among some of the Recruit (common) players (and I won't divulge those now for those of you still working on the set who need them). Tim and I thoroughly enjoyed writing the articles and Tim's labor of love in compiling the statistics should prove invaluable to anyone collecting the set.
For those of you who have compiled a team set (like the Detroit group shown above), I can't see how you can stop your collecting there. The set is one of the few that is mainstream, attractive and requires interaction with other collectors to finish. And that's a good thing

[frohme]

Thank you again to all that responded (and have helped).

David, Clayton - appreciate the kind words
Marc - best of luck on your continued journey - I'll be happy to continue to help out going forward - it is certainly not a sprint!

T205 - good luck! You picked the hardest team in the entire set. Boston Natl and Chicago Amer are at the top of the difficulty list, by good bit. Lowdermilk was definitely not the hardest - even some of the Recruit class cards are on par with his.

Using Tim Newcomb's rating (see the VCBC articles) averaged by team... my experience lines up closely with his survey data.

Team	League	# Cards	Difficulty
Boston
	Amer	18	30.94
	Nat	14	23.36
Brooklyn
	Nat	14	30.86
Chicago
	Amer	20	23.45
	Nat	10	36.40
Cinn
	Nat	10	31.40
Cleveland
	Amer	18	34.11
Detroit
	Amer	11	38.55
New York
	Amer	10	40.00
	Nat	13	50.31
Phila
	Amer	11	39.18
	Nat	9	39.11
Pittsburg
	Nat	15	31.53
St Louis
	Amer	10	30.40
	Nat	14	38.21
Washington
	Amer	9	48.00

[frohme]

Bob,

Thank you (and Tim) for the articles - no telling how many times I've read them now. Our posts crossed in time or I'd have added this.

I think you really nailed it for some key reasons -

• "It is a challenge". I'd call it a labor of love - you have to be in it for the long haul.
• "I don't think there is a set around that is more attractive when you can find cards in the set in really nice shape". Could not agree more!
• "It is completable, but a journey." Yes! 4 years for me, mostly 1 card at a time but for a couple of group purchases mostly early on. Scott B, Dan K, Paul S, Scott G.
• "... requires interaction with other collectors to finish. And that's a good thing. " Absolutely!
• etc...

OK, maybe I'm biased .
--
Mike

[sox1903wschamp]

Congrats Mike for completing the set and knocking down that last king pin in Donnelly. It is funny you mention David Festberg for your first card purchase as I also purchased my first T-207 Red Sox from him sometime in the mid 90's.

I do love this set and read the VCBC Part 1 and 2 articles all the time and although I concentrate on completing pre war subsets of Boston American cards, I have thought quite a bit about trying to complete this set. If I do a complete pre war set this would be the one, maybe soon . Nice job and congrats again Mike.

[Leon]

First of all a big Congrats to Mike F....completion is a great feeling.

And the T207 set has one of the rarest backs of any generally produced set. It still has Johnson, Speaker and some others....plus the hidden rarities....and, as mentioned, one of my collecting niches ...

[uffda51]

Congrats, Mike. I completed the basic set in 2005 and it's also at imageevent. It's the first time I've ever put together a set that has all graded cards so I've displayed it that way.

http://imageevent.com/uffda51/t207heaven



Loudermilk was my first card. Hoff is a favorite as well.

[Bosox Blair]

My favorite T207 from my collection (and at or near the top of fave Speaker cards):

[Vintagecatcher]

It took quite a few years before I finally grabbed my Johnny Kling T207 with a BIN on eBay earlier this year. For whatever reason, it not only is a tough card to find, but it is especially difficult to find in nice condition.

Patrick

[kmac32]

have a complete set of T207 Cubs minus Saier and Miller. Awesome cards and display very nicely. Classic set in my opinion.

Kmac

[Bridwell]

I've fallen in love with this set, also. Warts and all. Some of the poses are truly artistic. Some not so much.

I've been working on a set for a year and a half. Kudos to Bob and Mike for completing it. That's incredible! I've found that about half the set is pretty easy and the other half is pretty darn tough. Some cards only appear for sale maybe once in a year.

It's a strange set in that the following star players are not included:

Cobb
Wagner
Evers
Eddie Collins
Crawford
Joe Jackson
Grover Alexander
Plank
Baker
M. Brown
Walsh

There are 13 HOFers in the set, but some of those were early in their careers: Carey, Wheat, McKechnie, Hooper. It almost feels like this set was supposed to be the first part of a bigger set, a set that might have been planned to have as many players as T206. But, obviously, that didn't happen.

Ron