Shoeless Joe Jax DIVERSION, why isn't he in any 1911-1917 major T or E-card sets ?

[tedzan]

Your......" When ATC added the additional 14 SL players they were 4 Virginia League, 4 Texas League, and 4
Southern League (Alabama, Arkansas, and Louisiana.) "


Rockenfeld is the only New Orleans player of the Southern Association in this 350-only group of SL subjects.
Why wasn't Joe Jax selected ? He was the most popular ballplayer in that League in 1910.....and, is credited
with New Orleans winning the pennant.

Furthermore, the final T206 press run (460 series) occurred in the Spring of 1911....tell me why Joe Jax wasn't
depicted in this series with a Cleveland uniform ?

I'll tell you why....for whatever reasons, ATC snubbed him (as they did in all their subsequent sets).



TED Z

[botn]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'll tell you why....for whatever reasons, ATC snubbed him (as they did in all their subsequent sets).

TED Z

And you characterized the T202 thread as guesswork? LMAO.

[tedzan]

The 3 tobacco sets in the T216 issue, for the better part, borrowed the artwork from the E90-1 set.
Actually, I think it was the same printer. Therefore, Joe Jackson's image was available. All they had
to do was change his uniform.


TED Z

[tedzan]

I've had my suspicions that the T207 cards were not printed by the American Lithographic Company.
That may account for why Matty, Cobb, Young, etc. were not in it. However, a lot of other subjects,
that are not found in the white-bordered cards, are found in the T207 set.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The 3 tobacco sets in the T216 issue, for the better part, borrowed the artwork from the E90-1 set.
Actually, I think it was the same printer. Therefore, Joe Jackson's image was available. All they had
to do was change his uniform.


TED Z

Images used in the T216-1 set were a combination of at least 3 former sets.

E102, E90-1, and E101

Joe was definitely an available image for the T216 sets.

[Bridwell]

T207 has a very odd collection of players. I'm working on a set, and continue to be surprised at how many of the players were not in T206. Besides some stars already mentioned by Ted and Tim, there is no Wagner, Eddie Collins, Crawford, Evers, Grover Alexander, Plank, Baker, M. Brown, Walsh, etc.

T207 is one strange set, and probably deserves its own discussion.

Ron R

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Rockenfeld is the only New Orleans player of the Southern Association in this 350-only group of SL subjects.
Why wasn't Joe Jax selected ? He was the most popular ballplayer in that League in 1910.....and, is credited
with New Orleans winning the pennant.

Rockenfield played for Montgomery in 1909. As you know the 14 additional SL players were added in the 350 series first released in the spring of 1910. This all happened before Joe began play in New Orleans.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Furthermore, the final T206 press run (460 series) occurred in the Spring of 1911....tell me why Joe Jax wasn't
depicted in this series with a Cleveland uniform ?

No new SL players were added after the 14 mentioned above and I don't think at the time the final 460 series was going into production Joe had done enough in Cleveland to warrant ATC including him as a professional.

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'll tell you why....for whatever reasons, ATC snubbed him (as they did in all their subsequent sets).
TED Z

Had Joe not been included in the T210 set I would agree he was snubbed.

[Matt]

Tim- - I agree with you that T207 is the only question, though Matty, Cobb, Young and Lajoie are missing there as well.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Matt

Tim- - I agree with you that T207 is the only question, though Matty, Cobb, Young and Lajoie are missing there as well.

Matt after more consideration I'm not as surprised given what you said. I think whatever kept so many other HOF players out of the T207 set kept out Joe as well.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Matt after more consideration I'm not as surprised given what you said. I think whatever kept so many other HOF players out of the T207 set kept out Joe as well.

I think those players were just too artful to put into such a drab offering. I bet seeing what the artist did with WaJo, they decideed to have mercy on the other superstars of the day.

[tedzan]

OK, we have eliminated several of the aforementioned sets. But, that leaves us these remaining sets to consider.

1915 E106............................same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 T216 KOTTON................same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 T216 MINO....................same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 T216 VIRGINIA EXTRA.....same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 Fleischmann

Since Joe Jackson is featured in the T210 Old Mill set (Series 8), and American Litho. repeated many of their T210
images in the T206, T209, T211 (Red Sun), and T213-1 (Coupon) sets.....but, not Joe's image.
Why is this so ?

That being said, there appears to be no rational reason for not continuing to print Joe in the following sets, given
his tremendous performance during these years........

1912 T202
1912 T215-1
1913 T215-2
1914 T213-2
1915 T214
1919 T213-3


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Considering the T202 end panels are the same images as the T205 set and Joe wasn't in that set, isn't that a rational explanation for why he wasn't included?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

OK, we have eliminated several of the aforementioned sets. But, that leaves us these remaining sets to consider.

1915 E106............................same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 T216 KOTTON................same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 T216 MINO....................same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 T216 VIRGINIA EXTRA.....same images from E90-1, therefore no excuse for no Joe Jax
1916 Fleischmann




TED Z

Imagine if that awful pic from E90-1 was reproduced in all these other sets. Ugh.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Since Joe Jackson is featured in the T210 Old Mill set (Series 8), and American Litho. repeated many of their T210
images in the T206, T209, T211 (Red Sun), and T213-1 (Coupon) sets.....but, not Joe's image.
Why is this so ?

American Litho did not repeat the T210 images in the other sets. The other sets repeated the T206 images including T210. All of the sets that utilized the T206 images will not include Joe Jackson.

These two cards illustrate that T206 images were shared with T210. Perry Lipe was with Richmond in 1909 and Macon in 1910.

Originally Posted by tedzan

That being said, there appears to be no rational reason for not continuing to print Joe in the following sets, given
his tremendous performance during these years........

1912 T202
1912 T215-1
1913 T215-2
1914 T213-2
1915 T214
1919 T213-3


TED Z

1912 T202 – Same images as T205 so no Joe
1912 T215-1 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1913 T215-2 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1914 T213-2 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1915 T214 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1919 T213-3 – Shared images with the T206 so no Joe

I'm looking at the other sets and will let you know if I find anything.

[tedzan]

Great T3......it is indeed Shoeless Joe......thanks for posting it.


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Great T3......it is indeed Shoeless Joe......thanks for posting it.


TED Z

No ankle wrap....