Shoeless Joe Jax DIVERSION, why isn't he in any 1911-1917 major T or E-card sets ?

[Abravefan11]

Just some quick thoughts. Joe was almost inactive in the major leagues when the artwork for the T206 was produced. By the time he was in the majors and becoming a star T206 was coming to an end.

Does this help with other issue like T213, T214, and T215 that used T206 artwork as well?

T205's were produced before Joe was in the majors and not having a card in this set should explain his not being included in T202 as they share images as well. I still can't explain why his name wouldn't be included on the description of the center panel photo.

[Abravefan11]

T216 uses images from the E102 set which was also before Joe's time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My best guess is that it is a combination of before his time, sets using same images as before his time, and historical anomaly, and that there really is not any specific explanation such as he didn't give permission for specific reasons.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

T216 uses images from the E102 set which was also before Joe's time.

E106s also re-use art from the 1908 E102 set, so it's no mystery why he's not in those. Also, T213s, T214s and T215s just re-use T206 art, don't they? Outside of the 1911/1912 T-cards, he's in about as many issues as we'd expect.

[tedzan]

Regarding your......
"I still can't explain why his name wouldn't be included on the description of the center panel photo."

My two answers to that......
Other than the T210 card of Joe, he apparently gets "No Respect" from ATC (the gist of this thread's contention).
Secondly, have we really ascertained without a doubt that, that centerfold photo actually depicts Joe Jax ?

Furthermore, when the T206 Southern Leaguer (SL) players were in the designing stages, Joe Jax was winning the
batting title at Savannah in 1909.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure that there are other T206 SL players representing Savannah ?


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

I don't think it was a lack of respect from what I have seen (he was included in T210) but rather a timing issue. Most of the images used in the T206 set and E102 sets were created before Joe was a star and later sets reused the same artwork which didn't include Joe.

I'm not ignoring the T202 panel question I just don't think it is relevant to this discussion and I don't want to derail this topic.

Joe was winning the batting title in 1909 but images for some SLer's were taken from the 1908 season.

[tedzan]

Your...."Joe was winning the batting title in 1909 but images for some SLer's were taken from the 1908 season."

Joe was also winning the batting title with his hometown team, Greenville, batting .346 in 1908. In fact, the pix
of Joe, that American Caramel used for their E90 card, is taken from that team.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Your...."Joe was winning the batting title in 1909 but images for some SLer's were taken from the 1908 season."

Joe was also winning the batting title with his hometown team, Greenville, batting .346 in 1908. In fact, the pix
of Joe, that American Caramel used for their E90 card, is taken from that team.


TED Z

Again I don't think it was a snub by ATC but rather a matter of timing. No player that I'm aware of represents a Carolina Association team in T206.

When ATC added the additional 14 SL players they were 4 Virginia League, 4 Texas League, and 4 Southern League (Alabama, Arkansas, and Louisiana.) No more players were added from the Georgia area.

[Abravefan11]

Ted I think most sets on your list can be explained, the one that glaringly stands out to me is T207. His not being included in this set makes no sense to me. Four of the Cleveland players in the set were not on the team until 1912. Buddy Ryan played his first year of pro ball for Cleveland in 1912 and he was included. Given Joe's 1911 performance I can't figure out why ATC wouldn't include him in this issue.

[tedzan]

Your......" When ATC added the additional 14 SL players they were 4 Virginia League, 4 Texas League, and 4
Southern League (Alabama, Arkansas, and Louisiana.) "


Rockenfeld is the only New Orleans player of the Southern Association in this 350-only group of SL subjects.
Why wasn't Joe Jax selected ? He was the most popular ballplayer in that League in 1910.....and, is credited
with New Orleans winning the pennant.

Furthermore, the final T206 press run (460 series) occurred in the Spring of 1911....tell me why Joe Jax wasn't
depicted in this series with a Cleveland uniform ?

I'll tell you why....for whatever reasons, ATC snubbed him (as they did in all their subsequent sets).



TED Z