I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

With that said I'm perplexed by the fact that they would use an image of Joe and not mention him on the card. Other players that aren't included on the end panels are mentioned in the description of center panel images.

Tim,

Up to 1911, Joe had only played in 30 total games, so he wasn't as well known until later that year. That is just a hypothetical guess though, without any absolute proof.

r/
Frank

[Abravefan11]

Frank I understand your point, but considering a photo was used in the set from the 1911 World Series, Joe was well established by the time the write ups were done.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by T's please

Tim,

Up to 1911, Joe had only played in 30 total games, so he wasn't as well known until later that year. That is just a hypothetical guess though, without any absolute proof.

r/
Frank

The folks in Cleveland were eagerly awaiting Joes arrival to their team, so even though he had not played that much he was not "unknown". I believe he hit.354 and the Pelicans won the Southern Association title that year. Cleveland Papers ( which you can check) were writing stories about his arrival and his prowess at New Orleans. According to my buddy in New Orleans, there are articles in other southern papers from 1910-11 also hyping Jackson as a masterful batter and such , so I think people knew who he was and that he was a good player. he impressed the Cleveland fans in his first 20 or so games by batting a cool .388 with 4 stolen bases. To not name in on the card is kind of bizarre if it is him. he had already been used on advertising pieces for other products besides tobacco before the T202 set also which makes it even stranger that he would not be named on the card or that a mistake would be made using his picture and another players name. If it is him on the card then why no panel with Jackson, or T205.

[Peter_Spaeth]

werent these made in 1912, which would have been after jax hit .408

[Abravefan11]

Delete

[orator1]

Forget for a minute the identity of the player sliding into 3rd base. I think the pertinent question now is:
Were these two photos taken a split second apart? If the evidence indicates they are photos from the same play at third, then we know the baserunner is the same in both photos.
Tim's comparison of both photos is right on the mark (see below).

One additional point of comparison is the light-colored stripe along Lord's right pant leg and belt. Closely compare the pant stripe pattern between the two photos - from the belt area down to the sock - and it is clear that they match.
--The belt area in the top photo is a bit brighter, and that additional brightness is also seen in the bottom photo - and in the same pattern.
--Look at the stripe on Lord's right knee. It bends a certain way with the wrinkle in his pants. That same little bend in the stripe is seen on his knee in the bottom photo as well.

If these were two different plays at 3rd, the odds of a match in the stripe pattern are exceedingly small.

Without even considering the player's identity, the matching stripe pattern - along with Tim's observations below - indicates that these two photos were taken a split second apart on the same play. By the way I don't own this card, but I think this is a fascinating discussion.

Tim's observations:

1) The photos as pointed out before were taken from two different angles. The bottom photo was further up the 3rd baseline than the top.

2) Lord's right hand, Lord's head, and Joe's right arm all have moved proportionally from one photo to the next. Joe's right leg, Lord's feet, and Joe's head have all maintained their position. Nothing is out of place from one photo to the next.

3) The angles surrounding the bag including the curvature on the home plate side are identical.

In addition -
4) The dark pattern on the side of 3rd base matches in both photos.
5) Lord's right knee is bending forward in the second photo compared to the first. This is consistent with the 2nd photo being taken a split second after the first as Lord bends down closer to tag the runner.

Paul C.

[Abravefan11]

This should help better illustrate the differences in the angle the T202 photo was taken from and the newspaper photo.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

This should help better illustrate the differences in the angle the T202 photo was taken from and the newspaper photo.

Any way you can put a red line through the wrinkle in the pants like you noted? That would pretty much lock this up as being Jackson.