Wagner proof strip part II

[teetwoohsix]

I like your theories Steve.It sounds like you really know about printing, from a professional point of view.I do not know about the AB cards,but I just wanted to thank you for the "food for thought". Sometimes it's easy to get lost in some of the speculation, and I no doubt, can come up with some of my own "interesting theories",,but it really helps when people who know the printing processes the way you do present theories( I'm assuming you do or have done this work professionally?). Anyhow- thanks.

Sincerely,Clayton

[FUBAR]

i have heard before that some cards are "wire cut" rather then guillotine cut. o-pee-chee cards are notorious for rough cuts when the wire used to get dull.

I did work briefly at a printing place where a guillotine cutter was used and it was rather thick (1/8 inch). It wouldn't seem like the cards on the proof would be cut with one of those, they look too close together.

a guillotine cutter would generally have edging that would hold whatever was being cut in place which makes me think a guilltine might not have been used at this time period. Im not sure things were completely automated back then.


Does anyone know for a fact what the cutting procedure was in 1910?? we can speculate based on what happens now, but how about 100 years ago?

[Steve D]

Good theories Steve. But I would have to disagree with you on the lines, if what you're saying is that the T206 uncut sheets had the lines between the cards.

You mention the diamond cuts, which as everyone knows, is a big "problem" with the cards. Along with the diamond cuts, another common factor is that many T206s are oversized. If the uncut sheets had the lines between the cards, as guides for the cutting, then these oversized (horizontally) cards should still have a line on at least one side. This would be just like 1968 and 1970 Topps baseball cards. It is not uncommon to see narrow white lines on the edges of cards that weren't cut correctly in these two Topps sets.

The fact that we've never encountered an oversized T206 with a line on the side, would seem to indicate that there were no lines to begin with.

Steve

[steve B]

Yes that's one of the problems with the theory. No cards with guidelines.
It may be just possible that cards could have been cut so that the guidelines always got removed.

One of the things I want to do is to make some measurements of the scan to see if this just might be possible.

Ted has already put a fine cap on any thought of the AB cards being made consecutively. They definetly weren't, so the idea of them being made on a particular set of cutters that was only used for a certain time is out. And a different machine that was only used for AB cards makes so little sense it's probably out as well.(And still leaves a nearly unanswerable "why")

I don't recall seeing any cards cut offcenter side to side enough to show the next card, although I've got this nagging feeling I'm wrong on that.


I know enough printing to get myself into this sort of trouble.
A couple years in a shop that cross trained everyone. So I've actually run many of the small production machines. Plus I studied CAD/CAM, and did 11 years of industrial machinery repair.

Everything is the way it is because of how it's made. Make it differently, and the end result will be different in some way.

Steve B

[fkw]

Someone need to go look at the damn thing in person and see if the lines are drawn in, printed in, or a seam where they spliced proofs together.

My guess... they are hand drawn lines to show how large a cut card will look when finished.

[onlychild]

Let's make this a bit more complicated...like it really needs to be.

If you englarge the scan you will see that there are an additional set of vertical lines in on each side of the strong center lines that run along with the printers marks. There are also hortizonal lines on the top and bottom of each card, again running along the printers marks. They are faint but there nonetheless.

If cut on these lines, it would make some very thin bordered cards. Your guess is as good (probably better) than mine.

Also, along with missing blue, it seems all cards are missing some or
most the red. This is most evident on the faces...lips, cheeks, shading etc.

They all look uniquely similar.