T206 Wagner proof strip now in Philly...

[barrysloate]

It's possible Wagner wanted to see what the cards looked like before he made a decision.

[FUBAR]

So Ted, Can we expect you to be the buyer this summer??

I would expect this to be valued more then the individual card for 2 reasons, the first being, this is the only known example of the strip versus 60 regular Wagner cards, and two- the provenance, knowing that the Wagner estate was the owner.

A grading company would be silly not to want to slab this... what company wouldn't want their name on the most limited, unique and possible best find in the past 30 years?

then again, what do i know?

[onlychild]

Regarding the provenance:

Is this just an oral provenance or is it in writing somewhere by the estate? In the collecting world, provenace is only as good as the paper it's written on.

Can/Has anyone ever traced it back to its origins?...or was it just placed in an auction description? Would be interesting to know.

I think a piece so historically significant would need a rock solid backing.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's possible Wagner wanted to see what the cards looked like before he made a decision.

That implies that the look of the cards had something to do with Wagner's decision. I have a hard time believing he'd care.

[canjond]

Ted - you and I know each other fairly well and I certainly defer to you on many T206 subjects (in fact, probably most). However, I'm curious as to how you might be able to offer an alternative explanation for the overlapping and double-stike proof marks?

Even if you could imagine all 5 cards being precisely cut so that they could be pasted on a strip together in such a way that all proof marks line up (I'm sure that would be an extremely difficult process itself), it still doesn't explain the "double-struck" proof mark.

[carrigansghost]

Unless you have seen this strip, I don't see how you can comment as to it's authenticity. Conjecture as to it's origins are most welcome. Again I have seen this and am very comfortable with saying that it was printed as some sort of sample and not a conjured piece by some card doctor.

Not an expert, just my observations.

Rawn

[barrysloate]

How is that the Brown, Wagner, Young, and Kling have multiple heavy creases, but the Bowerman is nearly crease free?

[jeffshep]

For the record I definitely think it's vintage, not some contemporary card doctor frankenstein - just not sure it was printed as one sheet or pieced together. It would be very east to tell in person.

[jeffshep]

That Wagner crease to me looks like several instances of folding and opening - maybe the story about finding it in Wag's pocket in the attic is legit?

[tedzan]

I'm not sure I understand your "overlaping" comment ?

The cross-hair proof marks are very precise ID's for aligning the 6-color registration process in the printing of these cards.
Therefore, when these cards are placed adjacent to each other, I fully expect these marks to be in perfect alignment from
card to card.

Everyone has to realize that this is a pre-production piece. These are not completed cards, but thin-film like FRONTS that
I claim were affixed on a horizontal strip. Again, I repeat, the inconsistency of the colors of these 5 cards with respect to
each other is a total PRINTING IMPOSSIBILITY. I dare anyone to show me an UNCUT sheet, or strip with "crazy" colors as
these; and, lines between the cards ? ? ? ?


Regarding your last statement......."Even if you could imagine all 5 cards being precisely cut so that they could be pasted
on a strip together in such a way that all proof marks line up (I'm sure that would be an extremely difficult process itself)"

Jon....we are talking about the foremost Lithographic Co. in America back then. These printers were world class craftsmen.
This "junk" that we are mulling over here is incidental compared to the large pieces of complex artwork that they produced
on a daily basis during that era.


TED Z

[teetwoohsix]

I have never seen this in person myself, but all of the board members who have seen it in person have pretty much the same opinion on it--that it appears to be one solid strip, and not some type of paste job.

Clayton

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tex

That implies that the look of the cards had something to do with Wagner's decision. I have a hard time believing he'd care.

I'm not sure about how much control the players had or cared to have back then. I do know that Wagner had enough clout to get the card pulled for whatever reason you care to go with- didn't get paid, didn't get paid enough, didn't want kids to have to buy tobacco, didn't like the picture. Whatever reason it did get pulled.

Today you'd find it hard to believe the players would care what their card looks like, but they do. Some very much so, and every player signs off on every one of their cards, either personally, or by proxy (Mlbpa, agent etc.)
That's a big part of what the companies have to go through as part of the proofing process.

steve B

Who once spent an entire Saturday looking for 50 perfect college faculty guides out of a print run of 5000. Each faculty member got a guide, and they couldn't have any chance of a tiny print defect on any of the pictures.