What is Your Opinion About Grading?

[barrysloate]

Ted- I agree with you that there is some ambiguity regarding choice #2. I'm sure some who voted feel TPG only needs a few small tweaks, while others think it is a big mess- and everything in between. I didn't put a great amount of thought into the questions and only wanted to conduct the poll as a general survey. What is clear to me is a large number of collectors are not completely satisfied with it. I only hope the graders are reading this (I'm sure they are) and continue to work to put out a better product.

[teetwoohsix]

I voted for option # 1 because it is a grading service.Not only will they let you know if it's been altered,restored,trimmed,etc., they will give it a grade,according to their criteria,and slab it for you. So, I feel they have a system in place that works,for the most part. If you like raw cards, by all means, collect them that way!!! No one is forcing you to do otherwise.

Am I saying the system is perfect with no flaws? NO. As has been said before,it is people doing the grading,so of course it won't be perfect.

It seems like the biggest issues are consistency,crossovers,people not getting the grade they expected,pop reports (not being accurate),and what grading has done to the prices.I could've easily picked option #2,because they do need to improve (tweak) some things- but what else would be better than a ten point grading system? If you only used Authentic or Altered,you would still have dealers saying "this card is EX to Mint",,only to have the card arrive and be VG.There is no better safegaurd when buying over the internet than buying graded cards-and most of the stuff we collect has to be bought over the internet,or at card shows in other states.How many times do you want to get burned? If it were a perfect world,and there were no scam artists, maybe we wouldn't need anything more than a protective case,right?

There is no wrong answer on this poll,it's all about preferance.I don't always agree with a grade on the slab,or how one TPG's 4 is another's 3,etc.,but no one is forcing me to use them either.You should be buying the card and not the grade-just use the given grade as the example.And if all cards mean to you are a $$$ sign,well...................

Sincerely,Clayton

[Leon]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I voted for option # 1 because it is a grading service.Not only will they let you know if it's been altered,restored,trimmed,etc., they will give it a grade,according to their criteria,and slab it for you. So, I feel they have a system in place that works,for the most part. If you like raw cards, by all means, collect them that way!!! No one is forcing you to do otherwise.

Am I saying the system is perfect with no flaws? NO. As has been said before,it is people doing the grading,so of course it won't be perfect.

It seems like the biggest issues are consistency,crossovers,people not getting the grade they expected,pop reports (not being accurate),and what grading has done to the prices.I could've easily picked option #2,because they do need to improve (tweak) some things- but what else would be better than a ten point grading system? If you only used Authentic or Altered,you would still have dealers saying "this card is EX to Mint",,only to have the card arrive and be VG.There is no better safegaurd when buying over the internet than buying graded cards-and most of the stuff we collect has to be bought over the internet,or at card shows in other states.How many times do you want to get burned? If it were a perfect world,and there were no scam artists, maybe we wouldn't need anything more than a protective case,right?

There is no wrong answer on this poll,it's all about preferance.I don't always agree with a grade on the slab,or how one TPG's 4 is another's 3,etc.,but no one is forcing me to use them either.You should be buying the card and not the grade-just use the given grade as the example.And if all cards mean to you are a $$$ sign,well...................

Sincerely,Clayton

Hey Clayton- those are some pretty good thoughts. I voted #2 in the poll as I would like there to be some common sense applied (isn't most of grading subjective anyway) to things like the photo quality on OJ's and other photo type cards and less importance on things that can't be seen, but get dinged for, on blank backed cards. Again, I know this is subjective and it's an easy argument to say "but there is an erased mark that can only be seen at an angle on that back so it can't be a 3!!"....well, I disagree and think there could be a way to address some of those types of issues. Overall, I DO think we are better off with TPG's than without them. Otherwise we would still be getting NRMT Larry Frisch (RIP) cards with pieces missing.....as the norm.

[teetwoohsix]

It seems like buying raw cards from people you don't know over the internet is a gamble-and living in Vegas,I've learned that the odds are always in favor of the house (meaning you will win sometimes,but mostly lose ).I do not want buying cards to be a "gamble".I want to know what I'm getting,and at worst,think it should've been a grade higher or lower...........not find out this card I thought was a 4 or a 5 coming back with an A because of a trim or added color or whatever.To each their own, I feel the good TPG's provide a great( but not perfect) service.

Thanks,Clayton

Edit to add: I agree with everything you said Leon, just wanted to add that.

[barrysloate]

As Leon just posted, the way Old Judges are handled by all the grading companies is a travesty, and it's bothered me for a long time that none of them are willing to listen to collectors. A couple of years ago Leon and I made a trade and I sent him an OJ portrait card. I forget which player, but I'm hoping he saved a scan and can post it. It's the poster boy for what's wrong with the system. This card had a gem photo, 10 out of 10 quality, with virtually square corners and no surface wear whatsoever. It was a visual gem. But it had a spot of paper loss and was graded Poor! And I've seen OJ's with photos that have faded to nothing more than a blur, but because they have square corners and no paper loss, are graded EX-MT! That suggests that the sole criteria for assessing those cards was the amount of paper loss. The photo quality wasn't even a small factor, it was a zero factor.

Collectors of Old Judges hate this grading scale and refuse to accept it. There is no question a card should lose points for paper loss, because a similar example without paper loss will always be more desirable. But the heavy handed way these are handled really show a lack of understanding the issue, and the way the set is collected. And even worse, there is no acknowledgment by the graders that this issue needs to be addressed.

Leon, I hope you saved a scan.

P.S.- I know Kevin Cummings already addressed this early in this thread, but I thought I would chime in too.

[teetwoohsix]

I agree with you Barry,about the OJ's.Although I do not collect them, I see what you mean.It does seem that the TPG's are all over the place when they grade these,and this is an area they have to fix.

I have read many times that OJ collectors could care less about the grade,and this is why. Maybe the TPG's that care to read this board can take what collectors are saying and try to correct the problems.

Clayton

[barrysloate]

Clayton- I know they read the board. Let's see if any dialogue ensues. I would love to have them post and begin a discussion with collectors.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

As Leon just posted, the way Old Judges are handled by all the grading companies is a travesty, and it's bothered me for a long time that none of them are willing to listen to collectors. A couple of years ago Leon and I made a trade and I sent him an OJ portrait card. I forget which player, but I'm hoping he saved a scan and can post it. It's the poster boy for what's wrong with the system. This card had a gem photo, 10 out of 10 quality, with virtually square corners and no surface wear whatsoever. It was a visual gem. But it had a spot of paper loss and was graded Poor! And I've seen OJ's with photos that have faded to nothing more than a blur, but because they have square corners and no paper loss, are graded EX-MT! That suggests that the sole criteria for assessing those cards was the amount of paper loss. The photo quality wasn't even a small factor, it was a zero factor.

Collectors of Old Judges hate this grading scale and refuse to accept it. There is no question a card should lose points for paper loss, because a similar example without paper loss will always be more desirable. But the heavy handed way these are handled really show a lack of understanding the issue, and the way the set is collected. And even worse, there is no acknowledgment by the graders that this issue needs to be addressed.

Leon, I hope you saved a scan.

P.S.- I know Kevin Cummings already addressed this early in this thread, but I thought I would chime in too.

I'm really glad this is being brought to light... and it isn't only with OJs. I have seen Goudeys side-by-side, where the out of register/unfocused image receives a significantly higher grade than a perfectly registered one. Perhaps the corners were a miniscule amount sharper, but nothing most people would even notice without a loupe (or care about). The unfocused cards were so blurry that it made you dizzy to look at them, yet they were graded (and priced) higher than their much nice counterparts. I was left wondering who would ever opt for that?

This (and the seemingly random nature of different grade criteria being applied by different graders) has turned me off to the entire process. If they could re-think and fix this (or simply slab cards as "authentic") I would be much more apt to use their services.