What is Your Opinion About Grading?

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I started collecting in the era of no price guides. I still think the dumbest thing that ever happened in the hobby was the "rookie card" phenomena. Why should a rookie card be worth more than another year? It makes no sense to me at all.

As far as grading goes, if a person owns a nice card and it enhances the cards value or protects it's value for the future then I can understand having the card graded.

[Robextend]

I use TPGs primarily for protection and display. If you look at it like that, there can't be much wrong with TPG at the moment.

[bigtrain]

I prefer my cards raw but there is certainly a need for a service to verify that cards are authentic and not tampered with.

[judsonhamlin]

I went with Number 3 - I have recently started to get some of my nicer (for me) cards graded for protection (actual and insurance) and, in the context of buying cards, there are very few dealers, with whom I have dealt with for years, whose descriptions of raw cards I trust. I also don't get in a tizzy if a card I send to SGC comes back lower than I had it "graded" in my mind.

[glchen]

I voted for option 1, but would have preferred something like TPG is a huge benefit, but could use some minor changes rather than a complete overhaul. One of my submissions to SGC popped, and I received a lot of 10/1.0 and 20/1.5 grades from sellers which described the cards as VG or better. There are just a lot of flaws in cards that those of us who buy raws without much experience don't see.

[barrysloate]

An overhaul (didn't use "complete") could be anything from minor to major.

[Fred]

Well, should we start a list of what could be changed to make things better?

First off, if things change then that puts all previously graded cards in question and it also provides an opportunity for the TPGs to make more cash for a cross-over to the "new" standards.

1 - There are really NO industry standards therefore it's kind of like comparing apples and oranges at times. Well, maybe not that bad, lets say comparing a "golden delicious" to a "granny smith" apple.

2 - Take those numerical grades and shove them. Do a job called authentication don't provide numerical grades because it's SUBJECTIVE and there's just too much room for "subjective" error. I know the registry people won't like this because then they can't claim to have "the HIGHEST" graded set or card. What a bunch of putzes... (just my opinion - sorry if I offended you because you're a putz). How the hell can a card that is graded a 10 be worth $10,000+ more than the same card that is graded a 9? Especially when the 9 could be resubmitted and someday become a 10. I guess anyone STUPID enough to unencapsulate a 10 would deserve the enormous drop in perceived value of the card that was set free from it's plastic coffin.

3 - Create two categories: AUTHENTIC and ALTERED.
AUTHENTIC would indicate the card is real and unaltered. People can build on this if they wish. Should there be "qualifiers" such as MK for cards that are marked? Should there be a CRS qualifier for cards with creases? Anything but OC because I think people can distinquish what is OC and if it's really that far OC then don't buy the card if you don't like the OC condition. Do you really need someone to tell you the card is OC? Also - NO numerical grades. Buy the card, not the number on the label.
ALTERED would indicate the card is trimmed, colored or otherwise altered. Have the grading company list the alteration on the label. If this takes more time then have the grading company CHARGE for this and if the customer doesn't want the ALT label then the card can remain unencapsulated.

[aelefson]

Hi-
Sorry for the multiple responses. I voted as hating third party grading but I feel that is a very strong word. If a card is graded I will not even consider purchasing it fo my collection. However, I am responding based on the way I feel about grading. I certainly recognize that some collectors prefer it, and might not collect without it.
I cannot really say grading, "ruined the hobby" but it has changed significantly as a result. To hear some of the comments in the other grading threads such as the number on the slab is the most important thing, is absolutely ridiculous to me. That being said, I am sure a lot of folks out there think it is ridiculous that I only buy raw, and wonder how many altered or fake cards I have in my collection.
As many folks say, collect what you like! As I have stated many other times I have never, nor do I expect to ever, purchase a single graded card for my collection.
Yours in collecting,
Alan Elefson
aelefson@hotmail.com

[barrysloate]

You know Fred, I thought about what would happen to the registry people if grading did away with those numbers. And I concluded that those guys would still be collecting and they would be enjoying it just as much. Before third party grading there were plenty of people with huge collections. And if third party grading somehow stopped the practice of assigning those poppycock numbers there would still be many big collectors out there. In that respect nothing would change. If you love it you love it.

[Leon]

Alan- I removed your double posts. No worries...


For the record BVG Does offer an authentication ONLY service for cards that are not altered in any way and they don't receive a number. The only problem is that AUT cards now have a black mark against them because of perception and a lot/most folks don't know of their service, so if you get it done folks might think something is wrong with the card when it isn't. regards

[tbob]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You know Fred, I thought about what would happen to the registry people if grading did away with those numbers. And I concluded that those guys would still be collecting and they would be enjoying it just as much.

Barry, I agree with you almost all the time but do you really believe this? I think many of the registry guys are investors or guys dedicated to the "who has the biggest one" school and they would be lost without it. Not all, but many. I have some sets on the registry myself but if registries disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Robextend

I use TPGs primarily for protection and display. If you look at it like that, there can't be much wrong with TPG at the moment.

My thoughts exactly. The only problem I see is in the value people put on those grades, but I'm in the minority because I prefer "character cards" with a little tobacco staining and wear verses a vintage card so nice it looks fake and boring. As such, the only improvement I would suggest is to eliminate grading, but keep slabbing for authentication/protection.

Here is a good example of bad grading. Card looks EX-MT from the front but I am sure the marker on the back limits this to a grade 4 and not a 6.

Problem is that TPG'ers have this set of definitions for grading and they don't follow them. They don't have to when we all keep paying for the grades and not the cards.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=14243

[steve B]

I went with needs an overhaul. Maybe not a massive overhaul, but maybe a couple important changes and a slight expansion.

The changes?
1) have a Grading summit or whatever it took to get the big 3 together and settle on how to handle marks, paper loss, etc. I think they're all close to in line with corners and centering, but to have them grade differently because of a bit of paper loss on the back that one sees as a big problem and another sees as a small problem actually hurts everyone.
2) Maybe setup a third party as a go between for crossovers. I can see why none of them report to the others, it gives away info about a certain volume of business. so maybe go through a third party that would report them blind, no info about the crosover being done by anyone in particular. They could even track breakouts by colectors if they reported it. Doing this would make the pop reports a lot more valid.
3)Make BccG redo itself as 2,4,6, 8, 10 to make it less scammy. and do away with the traditional grades for that. Go with Awful, not so bad, kinda nice, really nice and wow!


For expansion, I think there's room for a superpremium grading service. Lets say, a slab with a panel next to the card for career stats or such. And behind that side panel a place to put a detailed report that explains the grade.

Also, the superpremium grade would be a combination of a mechanical grade - creases, %corner wear - Just the state of preservation of the cardboard and ink. Then have an aesthetic grade including stuff like centering, registration, and image quality.


I've only graded a handful of cards, and traded for one other. I can't see much value in grading 1s and 2s, I'm pretty able to tell when a card is beat.

But....Call me a putz if you must, it's fun to look at the card coming back and see that it's the best one graded. Yes, sure there are likely nicer ones out there, but just for the moment to realise you've got a card that's really that nice compared to others of its kind is pretty cool.

Steve B

[Leon]

Hey Barry
Unfortunately I didn't keep a pic of the N172. I remember the photo quality well, however. It was a very young looking player, portrait....You are correct, it had a 95/100 front and was graded 1/100.....and all of the grading companies do this, from what I can remember off the top of my head. Maybe there isn't a way they can change it this late in the game? I sort of understand that a photo "quality" is even more subjective than some other physical attributes but I still feel something can be done. I believe it takes some credibility away from the #'ing system when we see those examples. regards

[barrysloate]

If they did change it they would be good for a couple of thousand resubmissions. And isn't the resubmission an important part of their business?