VERY VERY disgusted with PSA--you won't believe it!!

[teetwoohsix]

I'll tell you why I prefer graded cards.When I was still fairly new (still am,in a sense) at collecting T206 cards,I bought a raw Burns T206 off of a guy on ebay.He described it as NM-MT,and provided front and back scans.To me,it looked V/G-E/X,and I won it for a decent price.Sent it to SGC,and it graded a 50,I couldn't have been happier.

Awhile later,same seller put up this Jake Atz T206,raw,with I remember correctly,his own grade of V/G-EX-and only a scan of the front.

I am at fault for not asking to see the back scan up front,but figured I had a good transaction with him before,and the front looked maybe V/G,so I bid and won for I think around the $20.00 range.

I sent an email after I had won about the back,asked if there was any paper loss or back damage.His reply was-no,there's no paper loss,some parts are "a little light".I got the card,and here are the pictures.The first is of the front,second is of the back,and third is how it looks now,after scraping all the crap off of the back.

I know I am at fault for not doing my due dilligence,but some sellers out there are dirty,and buying graded cards saves people from dealing with crap like this.Especially when you are new to the hobby.I love my cards graded-especially by SGC.

[theuclakid]

I echo what Ted and Barry have always said (correct me if I am wrong) that third party grading was only needed for the authenticating of a card to ensure as humanly possible that a card is real/authentic and not tampered with...and nothing more....most collectors and sellers that I have known for these many years could tell the difference between an ex, exmt and nrmt card.....grading is not an exact science and way too subjective...no revelation here...when I bought raw cards exclusively, I was only concerned with the authenticity and that the card was not altered, trimmed etc...I always felt I could determine (within the established hobby standards) an accurate grade for a raw card as well as anyone once the authentication hurdle was satisfied...the established value and negotiated selling price should be the only real question....from day 1, cards should have been encapsulated with a big A for authenticated and nothing more...a lot of these grading nightmares that have occurred to most of us would have gone away....thanks...Bruce Perry

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hear what Bruce is saying, but from what I have seen the overwhelming majority of cards (assuming they are not altered, see below) are graded right, or close enough to right, by PSA and SGC. And I think they perform a valuable service in picking up little wrinkles, paper loss etc. that I might miss particularly from a scan. For this reason when buying remotely I would almost never buy a raw card.

My bigger concern is and has been that some altered cards do get through the process, by anyone's definition of altered.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by theuclakid

Third party grading was only needed for the authenticating of a card to ensure as humanly possible that a card is real/authentic and not tampered with...and nothing more....most collectors and sellers that I have known for these many years could tell the difference between an ex, exmt and nrmt card.

Just not true.

My buddy Ed and I traveled to the Pier 92 Show in NYC in 1989. We were teenagers and had saved up all our money for the show. He spent $250 on a NrMt Jimmy Foxx 1933 Goudey card. In the car ride home, while looking at the card over and over again for an hour or so, we both noticed a hairlines crease on the back that neither of us had seen at the show at the point of purchase. Today, that card would be an SGC 50 and Ed would not be out his hard earned money.

Grading protects you not only the authenticity but also from hidden flaws in a card. It is an invaluable resource. And one that makes the hobby better because it encourages entry into the market and the proliferation of trades and sales. Newbies feel more comfortable coming and staying because they are protected by the same thing the owner of the greatest T206 Wagners are protected by -- PSA or SGC.

To say that PSA and/or SGC are leading to the demise of the hobby misses the fact that they saved it from itself and ushered it into the internet age.

[GasHouseGang]

Reading this thread brings out all the things I like and dislike about grading. To be honest, when it all started I never thought it would work. "I don't need someone to tell ME what grade my card is." But I have to admit, my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be, and if I'm buying off of ebay it gives me that level of comfort. But I was wondering about grading some 1930's cards I have for future selling. Does it pay off? It seems like people are such gamblers on ebay, that often a raw card will sell for more than a graded example because folks hope it will come in with a high grade. Thoughts?

[Robextend]

I think buying raw off ebay is a gamble, but there are different levels of gamble.

If I am looking to acquire low grade inexpensive cards then there is really not much of a gamble. However the higher the grade I want and the more money I spend, the more risk I am taking. For this reason I pretty much gave up on buying raw 1933 & 1934 Goudey's on ebay...much rather buy graded or use the B/S/T here.

[barrysloate]

I think we can all hopefully agree that third party grading does many good things, but that many things about it could be a lot better. How about if everything we utilize with grading were in place, but instead of using numerical grades which signify very little, we had adjectival grades.

How about getting a card in a slab that reads "VG, light creasing", or "EX, slt o/c." Frankly that would be more useful to most collectors than a number. A 3 can mean pretty much anything, but a very brief description might be more useful.

I'm in no way advocating the end of professional grading; I'm just suggesting that those numbers create more problems than they solve. They exist solely to keep the grading companies in business.

Okay, I'll await the fallout over this idea.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I think we can all hopefully agree that third party grading does many good things, but that many things about it could be a lot better. How about if everything we utilize with grading were in place, but instead of using numerical grades which signify very little, we had adjectival grades.

How about getting a card in a slab that reads "VG, light creasing", or "EX, slt o/c." Frankly that would be more useful to most collectors than a number. A 3 can mean pretty much anything, but a very brief description might be more useful.

I'm in no way advocating the end of professional grading; I'm just suggesting that those numbers create more problems than they solve. They exist solely to keep the grading companies in business.

Okay, I'll await the fallout over this idea.

I like this idea. It would be an expansion of what Beckett is already doing.

[rp12367]

So I'm still not 100% sure which is the better of the two. PSA or SGC I have several cards graded by both, mostlly T206's. It seems to me that PSA lets alot of stuff slip through and SGC is strict,but I'm sure they both have there moments.