Would JSA or PSA not pass a card that was signed in person for any reason?

[Griffins]

Mark- thanks for the clarification. Certainly damning, and it seems hobby authenticators are not held to the same standards of competence that forensic ones are.

[perezfan]

There is more to that story than can be quickly summed up here. Bando was signing at that very show (a few feet away), and nobody in their right mind would forge a nearly worthless Sal Bando autograph. It was a complete set-up...

Of course the guy who OK'd it was lackadaisical, negligent and needlessly cocky. But that was one person- who I would wager is no longer employed by Spence (I don't know for sure, however).

If the autograph in question was of greater value or scarcity, it would have received far more scrutiny by the authenticators. While the Bando example was inexcusable, I do not believe it is indicative of 99% of the material that Spence or PSA evaluates.

That said... mistakes are still made and it is not a perfect science.

[jbsports33]

Thank you for all the feedback, I am usually helping others on the site, but sometimes it’s nice to be on the other side of things

and yes I remember the Bando issue, this was not the first time I have had issues, and all the comments are great to read and give me perspective that I am not crazy here. I trust the family very much and I am just trying to help them out

Jimmy

[yanksfan09]

I think with both hobby and forensic authenticators you have to realize it's just another opinion, and hopefully a somewhat educated one....

It's impossible for anyone to be 100% right all of the time when they are not there seeing the signature signed themselves.

You just have to educate yourself, first of all and after that go with who you trust the most. We all know of the better authenticators and others with a much worse reputation.

I would also agree, that that whole Sal Bando thing was just a complete set-up and it would never cross someone's mind that someone would forge his sig... It would have held more weight if the undercover reporter forged a bigger name auto.

Either way, 3rd party authentication will never be 100% accurate. The best we can do is try to expose and erradicate the true scammers and crooked authenticators and put our trust into (hopefully) some of the top minds and more trustworthy companies and individuals.

[Frank A]

Autograph authenticators are the biggest piles of crap in the hobby. Its nothing but a scam and good auto's for their buddys and the auction houses. What a joke they are.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Autograph authenticators are the biggest piles of crap in the hobby. Its nothing but a scam and good auto's for their buddys and the auction houses. What a joke they are.

That is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Perhaps you've been burned a time or two and lost some money as a result. Most of us who collect autos have, and subsequently learn from it.

But from what I have seen personally, the respected authenticators (PSA, Spence, Keating, Gutierrez, Albersheim, Simon) get it right at least 90% of the time. It is sometimes difficult to remain objective when we don't like the results. Just my opinion...

[drc]

I always wondered about the case study that involves a reporter forging a Sal Bando autograph. First, in the real world who would forge a Sal Bando autograph for submission to JSA or PSA? Just seemed like a strange to unlikely scenario that would exist only on a tv show. Perhaps the only person who would even come up with the serious idea of going to a Sal Bando signing to forge a Sal Bando autograph would be that reporter or her editor. And Second, I found it somehow troubling on some level a reporter forging autographs. Just didn't sit well with me.

Not making excuses for JSA. They clearly made an error.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Autograph authenticators are the biggest piles of crap in the hobby. Its nothing but a scam and good auto's for their buddys and the auction houses. What a joke they are.

Frank, what is your solution on something like a Gehrig, Ruth, etc? Blind faith? JSA, PSA, Albersheim, Simon, etc have made a mostly strong reputation by getting it right most of the time, someone has to be relied on.

You could use Forensic document guys who get it wrong more often that not, oftentimes VERY wrong. There's a reason some of them aren't accepted.

With any player, unless you get the sig in person, there is some type of "leap of faith". But, having confidence in what you buy, and who authenticates it means a lot.

I mean, I could look at a Mathewson and give an opinion? Would I be right? Maybe, but Id still rather have some of the respected authenticators look, as that is their business and what they do for a living.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Frank, what is your solution on something like a Gehrig, Ruth, etc? Blind faith? JSA, PSA, Albersheim, Simon, etc have made a mostly strong reputation by getting it right most of the time, someone has to be relied on.

You could use Forensic document guys who get it wrong more often that not, oftentimes VERY wrong. There's a reason some of them aren't accepted.

With any player, unless you get the sig in person, there is some type of "leap of faith". But, having confidence in what you buy, and who authenticates it means a lot.

I mean, I could look at a Mathewson and give an opinion? Would I be right? Maybe, but Id still rather have some of the respected authenticators look, as that is their business and what they do for a living.

I think the issue is the science involved in authenticating an autograph. It's like advertising for food, where they say eating this food reducing your chances for heart attack, and the FDA made them remove these statements. If autograph authentication is only 90% accurate, in a way, that should be stated somewhere so that the buyer/seller know that upfront rather than trust it 99%. This is as opposed to grading cards for quality and authenticity where there is more science involved, i.e, using black light, 30X magnification, etc. I guess I don't really know how autograph authenticators work, but if they are just eyeballing autographs and/or comparing to existing genuine ones, I really don't think that is enough.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by perezfan

There is more to that story than can be quickly summed up here. Bando was signing at that very show (a few feet away), and nobody in their right mind would forge a nearly worthless Sal Bando autograph. It was a complete set-up...

Of course the guy who OK'd it was lackadaisical, negligent and needlessly cocky. But that was one person- who I would wager is no longer employed by Spence (I don't know for sure, however).

As an FYI, the employee who OK'd it - Larry - is still with JSA. I saw him at the Boston show last week. I know him from years ago and he is great with autographs - we actually both got started by collecting autographs together at Fenway Park and the various Boston hotels in the '80s - he just got caught in a really bad setup and looked horrible in the process.