Rebacked T206's....heck NO....perhaps, they are Re-Fronted DRUM, HINDU cards ?

[T206DK]

that's amazing that Joe Orlando wouldn't let you teach the graders there. And you offered to do it gratis ! I don't understand that at all. you would think he would want his graders to be as knowledgeable as possible.

[tedzan]

I am really surprised that a T205 front can be removed intact. Thanks for posting the scan.

I guess there can be re-fronted T205's (especially a Cobb, Johnson, or a Matty); however,
do we know all the front/back combos that exist in this set....as we do with the T206's ?

Furthermore, does anyone really care ? ?


TED Z

[jp1216]

Kevin - wow that front/back combo (and picture) is scary. I hope the likes of SGC and PSA keep up with this stuff.
10 years from now - a book comes out - "How I took down Net54"... LOL
Author will write about selling/trading his 'authenticated' fakes to members to acquire the greatest collection.

[steve B]

The 205/206 is pretty impressive. I can guess at some of what would have to be done, but I won't. My earlier post was probably close enough.

And yes, it's pretty scary what a real restoration expert in any field can accomplish. There was an antique restoration place in Arlington Ma for a while that had some antiques in the window along with before pictures. How a vase went from a pile of shards and dust to looking like new was amazing.
The price was also amazing, but apparently the vase was worth it even restored. I think they marked the stuff as restored to avoid problems.

Any time the money gets above what the top quality fakery costs the fakes will be made. In any field.

The next step will be collecting the best ones. In stamps, there are some forgeries that sell for more than the real stamp.
http://www.glenstephens.com/snapril04.html

Steve B

[FUBAR]

Kevin

Your altered cards website is one of the best reads i've ever done with respect to cards. It is both incredibly information, yet amazingly scary! Everyone on this site should read ALL of his page.....


thank you for the information!


Jim

[iggyman]

Ted,

I'm sure we all care. Most of us are passionate about our cards and to various degrees have some amount of money invested into this so-called hobby. We would like to assume that "all" card surgeons are terrible spellers and their forgeries can be easily spotted. But as your post suggest, that is not always the case. High-level fraud is rampant in our society (or any other society were $$$ and human beings are involved)......not much can be done about that. Our only defense is to question every new "find" and document the work of old-time collectors like yourself. Lets face the facts, this hobby relies way too much on the card graders at SGC/PSA. When in actuality, both companies are in the business of entombing cards as quickly as possible (they probably spend less then a minute authenticating a card). With that said, as collectors we have three choices, either leave the hobby, choose to be oblivious, or acquire knowledge. Hopefully, the majority choose option three.

Lovely Day...

[onlychild]

I guess there can be re-fronted T205's (especially a Cobb, Johnson, or a Matty); however,
do we know all the front/back combos that exist in this set....as we do with the T206's ?

Furthermore, does anyone really care ? ?

Ted, I'm just trying to help prove your theory. Entire pictures can be removed and cards can be refronted...they shouldn't be considered rebacked. The T205/T206 combo was made just to show it can done.

Here is a picture removed in one piece from a beater T206 I made for you last night, with pics taken from the back side. It had some wrinkles that broke through the surface, so naturally those pieces would be split when lifted.

Imagine this is a Cobb and I removed another the pic from a Red Hindu that had severe front damage. If done properly, the two can be joined without detection. Perhaps it could be spotted by a very intricate inspection (up to an hour in some cases) but what grading company would spend that kind of time? With the right two cards I imagine any combo is possible.

Kevin

[tedzan]

A momentary lapse on my behalf....for nobody in their sane mind would alter a T205 PIEDMONT card
of Matty to re-front another card of Matty with a DRUM card of Matty (if such a f/b combo exists).

This certainly tells us why we don't see any T205's being altered like T206's are.

Thanks for the sanity check.

TED Z

[teetwoohsix]

It's obvious by looking at Kevin's examples that these type of alterations can and have been done,but I'm not too convinced that just anyone could pull off a "re-fronting" job that would fool all graders and collectors.There is no way,unless you are a pro like Kevin,that you could "build" an example that could fool everyone,IMO.I would guess there may be a handful of people who could do an "undetectable" job-my point is that I do not think it's as easy to do as it sounds,that's all.

I admit,it is scary-but I would be a little more leary if I were buying these ultra rare,one of a few known,high dollar,bionic back cards........

Clayton

[barrysloate]

It may not be easy, but that wouldn't stop somebody from learning the skills. It's not easy to be a doctor, but people still go to medical school and ultimately practice medicine.

There is so much money to be made altering baseball cards that you can be sure many people are doing it. And while I agree not all these concoctions will get past graders, enough will. If only 25% of all altered cards got slabbed it would still be a very lucrative business.

[teetwoohsix]

Great point Barry-agreed.

I was dumbfounded at an earlier post where Kevin said he offered to show PSA graders a few "tips",free of charge,and was declined!!

Clayton

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I guess there can be re-fronted T205's (especially a Cobb, Johnson, or a Matty); however,
do we know all the front/back combos that exist in this set....as we do with the T206's ?
TED Z

Since the backs have their names, stats, and biographies on them I think it would be a bit hard to change fronts on T205s.