List of known Red HINDU's....can you add any new ones ?

[caramelcard]

John,

We should discuss whether or not we've seen more than one example of a lot of these combinations.

In this thread, Jeff posted a Chase/Red Hindu. I've never seen another.

My friend has a Cy Young glove/red hindu and I don't believe I've seen another.

And your Kleinow? Have you seen another?

There might be others out there, but not sure.

Why haven't we speculated on whether or not the above cards are rebacked?

If any of the Cobbs would break this new found pattern of not being found with a hindu back, it would obviously be the Red portrait "superprint."

Rob

[wonkaticket]

Barry I hear ya,

The facts are simple as long as there is money in this hobby there will be folks willing to take advantage of us. There’s nothing that can be done for every Kevin there are dozens of better equipped more talented card doctors with not so lofty Robin Hood type personas.

These guys will always be one step ahead as all criminals are in almost everything. It’s a game in which the good guys are always one step behind. Unfortunately there will always be one sucker who we will learn from their misfortune. It’s like a bad game of spin the bottle.

All one can really do to protect himself is educate themselves as much as they can, don’t be afraid to ask questions and if it seems fishy walk away.

The only real saving grace this hobby has as there’s no real money in this hobby yet. Get these items in the realm of rare manuscripts and oil paintings/fine art where lots of stuff is trading in six figure and many items are millions. Well boys and girls then you’re in for some real interesting times in regards to fakes.

Kevin’s of the world can perhaps help the graders stop the hacks or common doctor but when the right folks want to sell us fakes were in trouble. Keep in mind folks there are museums who have questionable manuscripts in their collections they paid millions for. This goes for oil paintings and tons of fine art,weapons, cars…the list goes on and on…our little baseball cards are a joke compared to what real crooks can do.

Cheers,

John

[teetwoohsix]

Excellent post Rob,I agree.

Clayton

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

John,

We should discuss whether or not we've seen more than one example of a lot of these combinations.

In this thread, Jeff posted a Chase/Red Hindu. I've never seen another.

My friend has a Cy Young glove/red hindu and I don't believe I've seen another.

And your Kleinow? Have you seen another?

There might be others out there, but not sure.

Why haven't we speculated on whether or not the above cards are rebacked?

If any of the Cobbs would break this new found pattern of not being found with a hindu back, it would obviously be the Red portrait "superprint."

Rob

Rob,

Fair and good questions.

Chase Hindu yes I think Ted has one.

Kleinow yes seen two in fact one is in REA right now..(Mines nicer..LOL )

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=13404

As for Young can't say I've seen a Red Hindu Young Glove...however seen quite a few Hindu cards of Young so he does pop up. In regards to Cobb seen none...

Like I said on the fence a bit still but leaning towards no print for Hindu on Cobb. Do to not seeing them and the connections these cards seem to have to one source who was getting cards from Moser.

Also in reagards to re-backing I'm a lot more inclined to think a re-backer would craft his trade on HOF players vs. a common such as Klienow or even Chase to a degree. Seems silly to destroy a Red Hindu common to create another common..folks are going to go for the gusto..Cobb, Matty even perhaps Young. Sort of like setting up a counterfeiting ring to print $1 dollar bills.

Hope that helps.

John

[caramelcard]

Hey John,

Yeah, that does help. I wasn't aware that Ted had a Chase/Red Hindu.

Lucky guy!

Anyways, I was just trying to make the simple point that just cuz we haven't seen more than one...

I'm not familiar with Moser. I'll search back posts on him. I had no reason to doubt the collector who initially brought the red cobb/red hindu and bat on/brown hindu to the board.

As far as whether or not a rebacker would use a hofer? I think the main thing (if we use what we've seen as evidence) the rebacker goes for is recognizable subjects that are mid grade examples (like yours ).

I guess if I was a rebacker, I'd try to put more than one example of a front/back combo into the hobby. Ok we're giving them way too many ideas now.

By the way, not to digress too much out of the red hindu zone, but what were you saying here?

"One would think we would see at least one other in all these years somewhere..heck even during my Murphy quest I found 3 BL460's examples in fact in BL460 there are many cards that have many examples even a single Cobb Red BL460."

Was the Cobb Red BL 460 suspect as well?

[cfc1909]

here is another Chase

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2008/240.html

I have also seen a few Young and Klienow reds over the years-I will try and find a auction result.

[caramelcard]

Thanks Jim,

What do you think?
Are you convinced that all four Cobbs are impossible with hindu backs?


We need to revisit the blue 7C or FC crayon on the backs of hindus as well. There's so many of them, it must be significant in some way.

Rob

[sando69]

john-
that cobb is stunning!
what can you share about it's history?
*i had never seen one before...
thank you for sharing that quality scan!

[cfc1909]

I will try and tell this the best I can.

In the late 90s there was a Donovan Drum that was a part of a group of 10 tough backed 206s that was auctioned by one of the larger auction houses of that time. Later these cards appeared on ebay except for the Donovan. The Donovan never showed up.

Later the Cobb Drum in question was proven rebacked by the scan that was kept of the Donovan. The Cobb Drum had the identical back as the Donovan Drum. Not 100% sure what happened next but I am 100% sure that Donovans back is on Cobb.

This was when the rebacking was brought to light in the hobby. It had been going on for some time and still does.



Robert- first let me say Cobb bat on and green is a possible combo and should exist with Hindu brown.

that said-
I am on the fence with the Cobb Hindu-I have only seen one example each of the browns and only one red also.

I would really like to own one but I have never seen one for sale or auctioned except the red in REA. I would think as a collecting group we should be able to come up with more than one brown Hindu Cobb. Hindu brown is not that difficult and that makes me think we should be able to account for more than one example each.
I can buy one red because they are so much tougher but not just one brown. But who knows maybe a hobby pioneer hoarded these up before us newbies came along

[tedzan]

Nice Wheat/red HINDU....thanks for posting it, Jim. Wheat is one of my favorite T206's.


Another T206 challenge, pairing same players with their Brown and Red HINDU cards.






Hey guys, let's see some more red HINDU cards. So far, only 9 (of 40) are on display here.


TED Z

[tedzan]

That accounts for 4 red HINDU's of CYoung. And, there is at least 3 known Johnson's.

Hey guys, consider this....how many red HINDU cards were destroyed by those nasty dudes,
who were re-backing T206's these past 12 years ? ?

Best regards ole buddy,

TED Z

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

By the way, not to digress too much out of the red hindu zone, but what were you saying here?

"One would think we would see at least one other in all these years somewhere..heck even during my Murphy quest I found 3 BL460's examples in fact in BL460 there are many cards that have many examples even a single Cobb Red BL460."

Was the Cobb Red BL 460 suspect as well?

The BL460 Cobb I feel is legit...it's in an SGC 80 holder now...LOL (Not mine)