T206 Red Cobb SGC 60/Altered? on eBay

[Leon]

I haven't handled or submitted quite as many cards as you have. I was only giving others' theories that I have heard. I didn't say they were mine. I do think a piece could be broken all the way around it and still be hanging on though. Personally, I would call that more of a paper pinch (see Red T206 Cobb for definition) but this is more semantics than anything. It's still a great looking card......I am sorry there is such controversy with it. regards

[botn]

You are right Leon we can dance all around what we call this thing but a paper pinch would show a crease at least that is what I have always viewed paper pinches to mean. Regardless of what we term it the images clearly show something which I have never seen in my more than 20 years as a dealer and collector. And I have seen a lot.

[botn]

I know just how much you all appreciate my bringing this thread back up to the top but after making several pleas for someone to provide me a scan of a card which has a “corner pull” one person finally came through. Herewith is a scan of the card and I will admit it looks very much like the corner on my T206 Cobb SGC 60 (if you can overlook the Cobb corner is on an angle).


Unfortunately this card, like the T206 Cobb SGC 60, is no longer in its original state. The example of above is another example of a card which has had modifications or alterations to the corners making them appear nicer than they really are. Below please see a scan of the card prior to it undergoing a very basic alteration.


Sean had described the T206 Cobb SGC 60 as having a “corner pull” and it took until now for me to figure out what he meant. A “corner pull” is a corner which has been pulled from a donor card to be attached to the card which you are attempting to enhance. Don’t know why Sean couldn’t just come out and say that directly rather than beating around the bush.

I know some of you are still in doubt despite the overwhelming evidence I have provided. SGC has merely provided a statement that they have reviewed the card and they feel it is graded accurately. Is that really enough? Anyone who knows anything about cards knows the T206 Cobb SGC 60 is altered. If not, then I should have been flooded with scans of examples of this anomaly. But not a single person could provide one. I understand why SGC is burying their heads but what about you? I lost $2,350 on this card. How much do you think you are losing when a grading company can make an error and then arbitrarily not honor their guaranty?

[ullmandds]

I feel for you Greg...I agree the card is/has been altered. It seems pretty clear to me. I guess one way to avoid this...which I practice...is to buy med/low grade cards.

[T206DK]

This is a bad situation all the way around SGC should do the right thing here...I don't understand there apparent stubborness. I think the card has been altered also just based on the scans that have been provided and from what I've seen preservationists do to supposedly ruined documents. Sometimes I think the grading companies are just flipping us all the bird. I realize you have a business to run, but without collectors there is no need for grading DUH !!!

[martyp]

I have glanced through this thread. I have seen other cards with simular corners as the Cobb. I was sorting some 1960 Topps cards last night and found this one. Here are a couple of scans. The Cobb card looks like my Topps card. If the Cobb was not in a holder, it would probably look the same. When I put the corner back in place on my card it looks like the Cobb. I do not want to spend the time to try and have it stay in place.










I do not have experience with corners that have been rebuilt, so I can not speak to that issue.

[botn]

For starters the hanging piece on the corner of the 60 Topps card is still attached at one area, almost making a hinge at that one point. The corner on the Cobb card is severed circumferentially. I have seen plenty of cards with corner lifts like the one on your example.

Further if you were to lay the Cobb corner back into position you still have two distinct wear patterns on the tip of the front piece compared to the hanging piece on the back. Your example shows equal wear pattern on the two pieces. Thanks for showing it, though.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by botn

I lost $2,350 on this card. How much do you think you are losing when a grading company can make an error and then arbitrarily not honor their guaranty?

How did you lose $2350 on this card, I thought that's what you paid for it?
It certainly has some value.

[botn]

Well Mike to anyone who does not drink the SGC made Kool Aid it is an altered card. What does an altered and trimmed Red Cobb sell for outside of a holder, even one as famous as this one? $500? Leon and Scott have been kind enough to force a $250 credit on me against my next B-L invoice so I am out $1600 not $2,350. However the good news is that there are enough SGC supporters out there who are convinced they can do no wrong AND SGC's graders do stand behind the grade, so I still have a chance to get back my $2,350.

[JP]

Nice attitude...they forced a credit on you? Not exactly the most appreciative tone in your post.

[botn]

Not at all JP. Very appreciative and as I stated several times but you were too busy bickering on 27 other threads to notice, Leon refused to take no for an answer and when he offered me the credit. That is why I wrote "forced". I did not want Leon or Scott coming out of pocket since they were not the ones who placed the card in a graded SGC holder.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by botn

Well Mike to anyone who does not drink the SGC made Kool Aid it is an altered card. What does an altered and trimmed Red Cobb sell for outside of a holder, even one as famous as this one? $500? Leon and Scott have been kind enough to force a $250 credit on me against my next B-L invoice so I am out $1600 not $2,350. However the good news is that there are enough SGC supporters out there who are convinced they can do no wrong AND SGC's graders do stand behind the grade, so I still have a chance to get back my $2,350.

I'm just glad it didn't get shredded. Nice to hear you still have it.