T206 Red Cobb SGC 60/Altered? on eBay

[Leon]

Any question is fair. This board is known for tough questions. Yours truly has had some of the toughest ones thrown at me. It's all good.

I think on this one card in question both sides will continue to disagree with the other. The graders at SGC are adamant as well as Greg is adamant. Maybe they can leg wrestle at the National for it? With enough alcohol I might even leg wrestle , not sure for what, but I might do it!!

[botn]

Hey Leon,

SGC calls this a corner pull. While I am not sure what the definition of that is (though maybe if you look it up it says see T206 Red Cobb SGC 60). Your theory of the flip does not work as the piece in question is completely severed at the side, the top and the bottom which you can see from the new pictures I posted. For it to be a "flipped" corner it would need a hinge. No hinge on this piece.

So why does the front of the corner have wear yet the back does not? The back piece is the most fragile and if it were not added to the card recently I cannot see how it would remain on the card or not sustain wear as well.

Due to the piece being severed how is it staying on the card and why is it on an angle?

Can anyone provide scans of a corner which has similar characteristics? I have never seen anything like this on a card. I have submitted tens of thousands of cards over the years.

Thanks,

Greg

[Leon]

I haven't handled or submitted quite as many cards as you have. I was only giving others' theories that I have heard. I didn't say they were mine. I do think a piece could be broken all the way around it and still be hanging on though. Personally, I would call that more of a paper pinch (see Red T206 Cobb for definition) but this is more semantics than anything. It's still a great looking card......I am sorry there is such controversy with it. regards

[botn]

You are right Leon we can dance all around what we call this thing but a paper pinch would show a crease at least that is what I have always viewed paper pinches to mean. Regardless of what we term it the images clearly show something which I have never seen in my more than 20 years as a dealer and collector. And I have seen a lot.

[botn]

I know just how much you all appreciate my bringing this thread back up to the top but after making several pleas for someone to provide me a scan of a card which has a “corner pull” one person finally came through. Herewith is a scan of the card and I will admit it looks very much like the corner on my T206 Cobb SGC 60 (if you can overlook the Cobb corner is on an angle).


Unfortunately this card, like the T206 Cobb SGC 60, is no longer in its original state. The example of above is another example of a card which has had modifications or alterations to the corners making them appear nicer than they really are. Below please see a scan of the card prior to it undergoing a very basic alteration.


Sean had described the T206 Cobb SGC 60 as having a “corner pull” and it took until now for me to figure out what he meant. A “corner pull” is a corner which has been pulled from a donor card to be attached to the card which you are attempting to enhance. Don’t know why Sean couldn’t just come out and say that directly rather than beating around the bush.

I know some of you are still in doubt despite the overwhelming evidence I have provided. SGC has merely provided a statement that they have reviewed the card and they feel it is graded accurately. Is that really enough? Anyone who knows anything about cards knows the T206 Cobb SGC 60 is altered. If not, then I should have been flooded with scans of examples of this anomaly. But not a single person could provide one. I understand why SGC is burying their heads but what about you? I lost $2,350 on this card. How much do you think you are losing when a grading company can make an error and then arbitrarily not honor their guaranty?

[ullmandds]

I feel for you Greg...I agree the card is/has been altered. It seems pretty clear to me. I guess one way to avoid this...which I practice...is to buy med/low grade cards.

[T206DK]

This is a bad situation all the way around SGC should do the right thing here...I don't understand there apparent stubborness. I think the card has been altered also just based on the scans that have been provided and from what I've seen preservationists do to supposedly ruined documents. Sometimes I think the grading companies are just flipping us all the bird. I realize you have a business to run, but without collectors there is no need for grading DUH !!!

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by botn

I lost $2,350 on this card. How much do you think you are losing when a grading company can make an error and then arbitrarily not honor their guaranty?

How did you lose $2350 on this card, I thought that's what you paid for it?
It certainly has some value.

[botn]

Well Mike to anyone who does not drink the SGC made Kool Aid it is an altered card. What does an altered and trimmed Red Cobb sell for outside of a holder, even one as famous as this one? $500? Leon and Scott have been kind enough to force a $250 credit on me against my next B-L invoice so I am out $1600 not $2,350. However the good news is that there are enough SGC supporters out there who are convinced they can do no wrong AND SGC's graders do stand behind the grade, so I still have a chance to get back my $2,350.