T206 Red Cobb SGC 60/Altered? on eBay

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't see, based on the scans, how it is any better than a jump ball, in which case the tie should go to the customer.

All well and good to be a tie and a jump ball....except neither of the 2 opposing sides feel that way. Otherwise, it's a great way to break a tie!!
I think one prevailing theory, which I am sure can be shot down with another, is that the corner in question was flipped up and then laid back down (most collectors don't have a big problem with this as it's done all of the time) some time later in it's life, and that is the reason for the uneven wear on front as opposed to the back. We know T206's are quite thick compared to some other cards so I guess it could be possible. It could also explain the complete break in the paper. I am not stating this is MY view but it is a view, nonetheless, and a potential explanation. For me personally, I am still not 100% either way, but it does look weird. regards

BTW, Peter...your statement about how can we trust SGC after this, was absolutely ridiculous imo. I trust them with my personal cards and they are still our grading company of choice for B and L Auctions. Have you ever lost a case? (not inferring who is correct on this card, just making an example) If you have then how could any future client trust you? IT sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon I agree with the proposition one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, and if it were just a mistake on initial grading I wouldn't think about it at all really, but the insistence after a further review that this card is not possibly altered does make me wonder more generally.

[Leon]

Any question is fair. This board is known for tough questions. Yours truly has had some of the toughest ones thrown at me. It's all good.

I think on this one card in question both sides will continue to disagree with the other. The graders at SGC are adamant as well as Greg is adamant. Maybe they can leg wrestle at the National for it? With enough alcohol I might even leg wrestle , not sure for what, but I might do it!!

[botn]

Hey Leon,

SGC calls this a corner pull. While I am not sure what the definition of that is (though maybe if you look it up it says see T206 Red Cobb SGC 60). Your theory of the flip does not work as the piece in question is completely severed at the side, the top and the bottom which you can see from the new pictures I posted. For it to be a "flipped" corner it would need a hinge. No hinge on this piece.

So why does the front of the corner have wear yet the back does not? The back piece is the most fragile and if it were not added to the card recently I cannot see how it would remain on the card or not sustain wear as well.

Due to the piece being severed how is it staying on the card and why is it on an angle?

Can anyone provide scans of a corner which has similar characteristics? I have never seen anything like this on a card. I have submitted tens of thousands of cards over the years.

Thanks,

Greg

[Leon]

I haven't handled or submitted quite as many cards as you have. I was only giving others' theories that I have heard. I didn't say they were mine. I do think a piece could be broken all the way around it and still be hanging on though. Personally, I would call that more of a paper pinch (see Red T206 Cobb for definition) but this is more semantics than anything. It's still a great looking card......I am sorry there is such controversy with it. regards

[botn]

You are right Leon we can dance all around what we call this thing but a paper pinch would show a crease at least that is what I have always viewed paper pinches to mean. Regardless of what we term it the images clearly show something which I have never seen in my more than 20 years as a dealer and collector. And I have seen a lot.

[botn]

I know just how much you all appreciate my bringing this thread back up to the top but after making several pleas for someone to provide me a scan of a card which has a “corner pull” one person finally came through. Herewith is a scan of the card and I will admit it looks very much like the corner on my T206 Cobb SGC 60 (if you can overlook the Cobb corner is on an angle).


Unfortunately this card, like the T206 Cobb SGC 60, is no longer in its original state. The example of above is another example of a card which has had modifications or alterations to the corners making them appear nicer than they really are. Below please see a scan of the card prior to it undergoing a very basic alteration.


Sean had described the T206 Cobb SGC 60 as having a “corner pull” and it took until now for me to figure out what he meant. A “corner pull” is a corner which has been pulled from a donor card to be attached to the card which you are attempting to enhance. Don’t know why Sean couldn’t just come out and say that directly rather than beating around the bush.

I know some of you are still in doubt despite the overwhelming evidence I have provided. SGC has merely provided a statement that they have reviewed the card and they feel it is graded accurately. Is that really enough? Anyone who knows anything about cards knows the T206 Cobb SGC 60 is altered. If not, then I should have been flooded with scans of examples of this anomaly. But not a single person could provide one. I understand why SGC is burying their heads but what about you? I lost $2,350 on this card. How much do you think you are losing when a grading company can make an error and then arbitrarily not honor their guaranty?