$50 REWARD for finding any BROAD LEAF 460 "No-Print" cards

[White Borders]

Hey Ted,

What are your thoughts on the two bifurcated cards, Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chi & Bos), with respect to the mutual exclusivity of BL460/Red Hindu vs AB460/Uzit? Do you think they behave as 350/460 Series subjects?

If so, since Kleinow (Boston) has been confirmed with a BL460 back, then it should also be found with a Red Hindu, but not with AB460 or Uzit backs.

For Smith (Chi & Bos), I think, but I'm not certain, that it has been confirmed with an AB460 back. So, it should then also be found with an Uzit back, but not with a BL460 or Red Hindu.

Many times I've read Scot Reader's explanation of the bifurcation of Kleinow (NY Catching) / Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chi White Cap) / Smith (Chi & Bos) in "Inside T206". It is a fascinating - but somewhat difficult - concept to completely grasp!

Thanks and Best Regards,
Craig


Note - The following is the pertinent portion from Scot Reader's "Inside T206: Centennial Edition" for anyone wanting to brush up on the bifurcations of Kleinow and Smith.

The T206 subject bifurcation theory introduced in the 150/350 group discussion has relevance to the 350/460 RP group as well. In the latter subject group, the players of interest are Red Kleinow and Frank Smith. These players have subjects, Kleinow (N.Y. Catching) and Smith (Chicago White Cap), that were intended to have been fully printed with the 350/460 RP group, but experienced shortened print runs due to trades that sent these players to new teams.

As a result of the trades, the original subjects that identified the players with their former teams were replaced midway through the 350/460 RP print run with subjects that identified the players with their new teams. The result is that all four of these bifurcated subjects were short-printed relative to garden variety 350/460 RP subjects.

Thus, Kleinow (N.Y. Catching) was an intended 350/460 RP subject that was printed with 350 series backs but removed before the 460 portion of the print run started in favor of Kleinow (Boston), which underwent print with the 460 series backs.

Similarly, Smith (Chicago White Cap) was a planned 350/460 RP subject that was printed with 350 series backs before yielding to Smith (Chicago and Boston), which experienced the 460 portion of the print run.

The Kleinow and Smith bifurcations have several consequences. First, although Kleinow (N.Y. Catching) and Smith (Chicago White Cap) are technically 350-only subjects (since they do not appear with any 460 series back), as bifurcated 350/460 RP subjects they do not exist with any 350 series back that is exclusive to the 350-only group, namely, American Beauty 350 with Frame, Broad Leaf 350, Carolina Brights or Cycle 350.

Second, although Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chicago and Boston) are technically 460-only subjects (since they do not appear with any 350 series back), as bifurcated 350/460 RP subjects they do not exist with any 460 series back that was introduced with the 460-only subject group, namely, Sovereign 460 or Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 30.

[JP]

Originally Posted by White Borders

If so, since Kleinow (Boston) has been confirmed with a BL460 back, then it should also be found with a Red Hindu...

There's a Red Hindu Kleinow (Boston) in the current REA.....

[tedzan]

The Kleinow (Boston) and the Smith (Chi & Bos) are actually 350/460 series cards without any 350 series backs.
That is the best way to look at these two strange cards.

OK, Kleinow (Boston) is found with a BL 460 back and a Red HINDU back.

Smith (Chi & Bos) is found with an AB 460 back and a UZIT back.

It's as simple as that.

Good question, I hope I answered you satisfactorily.

TED Z

[tedzan]

Craig W....and, others who have tried to contact me via PM's.


I'm not accepting PM's.....instead, I have blocked them.

Please contact me directly via normal Email at......

tedzan11@comcast.net


Thanks,

TED Z

[cfc1909]

Smith.jpgSmithb.jpg

[tedzan]

Thanks for posting a super rare front/back combo......Smith / UZIT


TED Z

[tedzan]

I have doubled the reward to $40 for anyone finding any of the listed 28 subjects that I consider BL 460 No-Prints......

The following 28 cards are deemed as BL 460 No-Prints

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wilhelm (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


Thanks for your responses,

TED Z

[tedzan]

OK, I'm not too surprised that there are no takers for the $40 reward for confirming any one of these cards listed
as BROAD LEAF 460 "No-Prints".

So, can we assume that none of these exist with the BL 460 back ?

Or, is it too early in this game for us to be sure ? ?

Come on guys, the two Andrew Jackson's are burning a hole in my pocket


TED Z

[slidekellyslide]

Ted, if you keep raising the reward people are going to hold out until you hit your stopping point.

Not that I think anyone will come forward with a card on your list...if one does exist it's probably held by someone who thinks uncatalogued cards are state secrets.

[GoldenAge50s]

When you get up to around $100 I'm going to dig out all 28 of them from my backroom & show them to you!

I've got them mixed in w/ my Monster boxes full of 1991 Fleer & it's too much trouble to find them right now.

[tedzan]

OK guys, why stop at a $100.....I might just offer a $1000 reward, and perhaps that will get us some action on these BL 460 cards.

Reminds me of back in the mid 1970's when a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle card was considered quite rare. By 1980, this Mantle card
was selling for $2000....and, they were coming out of the woodwork.

Well, the 26 known BL 460 cards are quite rare; and, if I did my homework correctly, these 28 - BL 460 "No-Prints" just do not exist.
So, I think my bank account is safe.


TED Z

[FUBAR]

at $1000 ea, i will start printing them... nice fresh gradable cards....

[philliesphan]

Ted:

A fellow collector a few years ago [2-3?] told me that he possessed the McQuillan bat with a BL 460 that was in his safe deposit box at the bank. I had no reason to doubt him, but he didn't have a scan or anything that is definitive evidence.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by philliesphan

Ted:

A fellow collector a few years ago [2-3?] told me that he possessed the McQuillan bat with a BL 460 that was in his safe deposit box at the bank. I had no reason to doubt him, but he didn't have a scan or anything that is definitive evidence.

Whatever happened to that guy that used to post here about his thousands of T206s in a safe deposit box. I can't recall his name.

[tedzan]

I have increased the reward to $50 for anyone finding any of the listed 28 subjects that I consider
BL 460 No-Prints.

I welcome any verifiable inputs that will prove me wrong.......and, a U.S. Grant greenback is yours
for each new input.

The following 28 cards are deemed as BL 460 No-Prints

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wilhelm (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


Thanks for your responses,

TED Z