An eBay problem and call for advice from a quasi-neophyte

H_T_Davis · #1 04-07-2010, 12:41 PM

Thanks for all of the comments. Someone asked for the link, so now I have to expose myself as a naive credulous collector who buys cards both modern and cheap - the punishment never ends. Here is the address

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Of course, now that I know the end result, the ONLY thing I see when I open the listing is that (oc) in the picture, but since this is not a rare card and not in premium condition, I just didn't notice it - what can I say other than lesson learned. I decided I wanted a PSA-6 or 7 example and have bid on quite a few, just waiting until I get one that isn't bid too high (May's cards seem to be going for abut half of the price listed in the Beckett Graded Card Investor, which would put my target at around $100). To address another comment, the bids were not particularly low for this card - I doubt anyone else noticed the (oc) either.

On a side note, since someone mentioned BCCG, the seller tried to explain that I got a great deal, by say that "I've researched this card and you couldn't buy one for less even a lower grade (5) good-very good and all are either off center or they are faded and have poor corners."

Chicago206 · #2 04-07-2010, 12:43 PM

"On a side note, since someone mentioned BCCG, the seller tried to explain that I got a great deal,....."

Yeah, you got such a great deal that he wont take the card back even if it means you'll pay shipping both ways. Scumbag seller IMO.

JP · #3 04-07-2010, 12:49 PM

Neither title nor listing mentions the qualifier. 100% chance you'll win if you file a proper claim....Seller lied by omission.

jb217676 · #4 04-07-2010, 12:54 PM

He doesn't even mention 'OC' anywhere. He should have listed the grade and qualifier in the 'item specifics' section of the listing (didn't even list the numerical grade). Ebay has a spot for listing qualifiers. You would win this fight if you choose to do so.

forazzurri2axz · #5 04-07-2010, 01:30 PM

Buy three more of his items, and then NEG him on all 3!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, some may think that's not the honest thing to do, but it's called what goes around ,comes around.

JP · #6 04-07-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

Buy three more of his items, and then NEG him on all 3!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, some may think that's not the honest thing to do, but it's called what goes around ,comes around.

Bill! Don't see you around these parts often...hope you're doing well!

If he can neg him on future auctions why can't he neg on this auction we're discussing, especially since it is justified?

glchen · #7 04-07-2010, 01:57 PM

I'm a quasi-neophyte Ebayer also, but if this were me, I would just leave the seller neutral feedback, keep the card, and take it as a lesson learned. I've re-entered the hobby after collecting as a kid, so I've been reading these boards to gain more knowledge. However, one piece of advice that I've read frequently is "Buy the card, not the holder." You should have take a look at the card, and clearly seen that it was OC. When I purchase PSA cards on Ebay, I also do a cert verification from the PSA website for another level of authenticity check, and that is where you should have noticed that the card was OC. One final thing that I like to do is to do a search of Ebay for that same card, e.g., "1957 Topps Mays". Then I narrow down the display criteria to only those cards that are graded. On Ebay, you can get overcome by the feeling to want to "win" an auction and end up paying more than you need to, so when I do this search, I can get an idea of the top limit that I should have for this card since there are typically many other Buy Now cards that can give a rough idea of the market value of the card at this time.

It's easy to make mistakes on Ebay all of the time. I just bought a couple of cards that I have regrets on. Basically, you have a seller that is selling like 20 cards for a series that you want to collect, and each card's auction ends like 2 minutes apart. Therefore, you end up putting bids in w/o really looking at the card closely, and doing the proper research. This is what happens.

You can absolutely give the seller negative feedback. I'm sure Ebay would not stop you there. I would ding him a bit to neutral feedback, especially since the card was relatively inexpensive. Up to you, of course.

smtjoy · #8 04-07-2010, 01:47 PM

Just file with ebay and you should win because the item was not as described.

If by chance you lose then neg him and leave 1 star for sure to warn the next buyer.

H_T_Davis · #9 04-07-2010, 01:58 PM

I filed a complaint and put the below in where it asked for a description of the seller's and my communications. I didn't notice a place where it actually asked for my specific complaint, so I tried to make it clear in that part. If there are any key phrases that I need to bring up, please let me know. Otherwise, thanks to everyone for helping we with this.

"I asked the seller to refund the auction price of the card (with me picking up both shipping fees) due to the fact that the card delivered is graded PSA-6 (OC) while the card described in the title and the text of the listing is described as a PSA-6. The card pictured in the listing is the card delivered and does indeed show the (OC) qualifier. That (OC) qualifier makes the card worth roughly 50% less than if the card was actually a PSA-6. I offered to eat the shipping costs as an incentive for him to accept the return, in spite of the fact that the only reason not to mention the (OC) is to hope that someone in a rush, like me, would not inspect the picture closely to verify that it matched the title and description. That is exactly what happened. The seller responded initally that he would speak with eBay customer service. In a second communication this morning, he explained that he has done nothing wrong, eBay says he has done nothing wrong, eBay says I won't be allowed to leave negative feedback and that he is not accepting the return. I responded that I would be initiating this complaint based on him making a conflicting listing and him delivering an item substantially different from that described in the listing. For the record, since a protracted official proceeding was what I was hoping to avoid by offering to pick up the shipping, I am no longer interested in offering that and wish to be reimbursed for all costs to me. Also, my complaint is not necessarily limited to the 2 issues communicated to him, but those were the only 2 that I mentioned in my message. All communications have been done through eBay, so you can see the entire history there."

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

iggyman · #10 04-07-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Just file with ebay and you should win because the item was not as described.

Roger! Roger on that!

Buyer has a little remorse and seller should oblige since he was misleading in his description. Book 'em, Danno!

-Lovely Day...

Of course, you would have ZERO recourse if this happened to you with an auction house.

Jim VB · #11 04-07-2010, 12:49 PM

Actual past selling prices show you paid a fair price for that card. A real PSA 6 would have set you back far more than $100 most of the time, according to VCP. You ultimate price was a little higher than, but closer to, a PSA 4.

H_T_Davis · #12 04-07-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Actual past selling prices show you paid a fair price for that card. A real PSA 6 would have set you back far more than $100 most of the time, according to VCP. You ultimate price was a little higher than, but closer to, a PSA 4.

You may be right, as I haven't bought a PSA-6 of this card before, but for Mays cards (around 1957) purchases made this month, I've paid (based on the prices in the March/April Becket Graded Card Collector that I've using):

1954 Bowman 89 PSA5 - 53%
1958 Topps 5 PSA4 - 55%
1959 Topps 563 PSA7 - 44%
1959 Topps 50 SGC 86 - Hard to say, as there is a big jump between 7 and 8, but no worse than 79% and probably around 65%
1960 Topps 200 PSA5 - 55%

These percentages include shipping/handling/insurance. 1956 and before cards go higher (and exponentially so), mid-60's thru 73 go lower and weirder stuff much higher, usually.

Based on that, and a dozen or so more buys, if I was getting a deal, I didn't realize it at the time. It looked like I was right where I aimed to be - around 50%. My max bid was $88.89.

I'm on a HOFers from Alabama jag right now, working on the the post-war players since they have so many different cards. I have most of the Manushs and about half of the Sewells already, but am always on the lookout for more.

Jim VB · #13 04-07-2010, 01:27 PM

Beckett's is nothing more than a guide. And printed guides have built in problems with being timely.

I suggest you either search closed Ebay auctions (which only gives you 15 days of data) or use one of the services that gathers all that data and sorts it for you. I mentioned vintagecardprices.com, only because they are an advertiser here. There are a couple of others. They are a subscription service however.

ibuysportsephemera · #14 04-07-2010, 12:53 PM

I am a seller on eBay so I have no problem telling you to go after the seller.

If he didn't put the OC in the title but put it into the description I would say that it was on you the buyer...but the seller clearly was trying to get around the fact that there was a qualifier by not putting it into the description.

The seller is Top Rated, so by leaving feedback with 1 or 2 stars you can be costing him his 20% discount (assuming that the seller has 1 or 2 other customers that are not satisfied and also leave 1 or 2 stars).

Good luck.

Jeff

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