Drum or Uzit?

[tedzan]

The recent two DRUM finds bring the total to 132 confirmed T206's with DRUM backs....and in my book, relegate this back
to a less scarce status relative to the UZIT backs.

There are only 50 - T206's that have been confirmed with UZIT backs. This factor, alone, suggests that indeed the UZIT's
must be tougher. But, of course we have no knowledge of the actual quantity of how many of these UZIT's were printed.
And, although, there are considerably less UZIT-backed T206's, they may have been printed in greater numbers than DRUM's.

I really doubt this, as we know that the UZIT T206's were printed at the tail-end of the T206 production line (Spring 1911).
While the 132 (or so) DRUM T206's were printed in the timeframe of the Fall/Winter of 1910 (when T206 production was still
going strong).

Furthermore, consider the following UZIT "No-Print" subjects......

(a)....The 6 super-prints (Chance, two Chase's, Red Cobb, Evers, Matty)

(b)....Johnson (pitching)

(c)....CYoung (glove)

(d)....No Minor Leaguers


Conversely, the following major stars were printed with DRUM backs......

Baker
Bender (no trees)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Evers (yellow sky)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Speaker

and 25+ Minor Leaguers

Someone has to hit me with some convincing facts to change my mind.....UZIT's are indeed tougher than DRUM's.


TED Z

[ethicsprof]

Chicago, as you say, you are offering a snapshot in time that is an interesting observation but the data now speaks for the primacy of uzit over
drum on Jim R's most helpful new list methinks.

best,
barry

[cfc1909]

When I posted the scarcity list -it was truly my expierence collecting this set.
Over the years I only remember one other auction that had 12 plus Uzits in it.

I suggest you keep notes for at least a five year period-10 would be better and you will have a good idea of how tough the back ads are. The members can tell you their expierence but for sure yours will be different. To see 12 Uzits offered in your first few months of collecting is not normal.

We have a great advantage-the internet-the old timers probably took years to see 12 Uzits.

I know a collector that had all the set minus Doyle and Wagner. Most of the backs-he setteled for a Drum with the corner missing because they just were not avalible at the time he collected.

[Chicago206]

"To see 12 Uzits offered in your first few months of collecting is not normal."


I believe you. It shocked me to see 12 available at 1 time! I do not have extensive experience with any T206's since I have been collecting since just this past January. I have limited info to go on. I do know that at the Chicago SunTimes show (fairly large event), there were exactly 2 Drums and a single Uzit. And of those 3 total cards, just a single Drum was actually available for sale (other Drum and the Uzit were in an auction). Its just hard to grasp how in these 2 current auctions, Uzits outgun the Drums by such a huge margin!

[ChiefBenderForever]

The market for tough backs is hot, money is tight, people are broke. If someone has been holding onto those Uzits for years now is the time to cash in.

[ullmandds]

rare backs are definitely hot...I've been casually seeking out t206's w/rare backs for almost 20 years...and in my casual experience...I'd say they're both really tough!!! Until recently...I have seen more drums for sale in my life than uzits. There is no absolute answer...they're both very tough!

[JerryTotino]

I realize that population reports are not even close to being 100% accurate because cards are cracked out and either resubmitted to the same grading company hoping for a possible bump or submitted for crossover, but they can at least be used as a high level gauge of populations.

The PSA population reports indicate that approximately 33 UZIT and 60 Drums have been graded. Note: Thanks to Ron for pulling this data.

- 41 of the 60 PSA Drums are from the St. Louis find.

The SGC population reports indicate that approximately 81 UZIT and 62 Drums have been graded.

- 27 of the SGC Drums are from the 2007 Hunt auction.
- 33 of the SGC UZITS are from the 2006 REA auction

Thus, we have a graded total of 114 UZIT and 122 Drums.

At the surface these numbers pretty much indicate a wash, but if you look at the numbers in more detail they may provide some additional insights.

Out of 113,000 T206 graded by PSA, 64,000 are listed as 'unknown back'. Thus, there is no clear evidence of how many of these 64,000 'unknown backs' are either Drum or UZIT. If I had to guess I would say that maybe more UZIT's can be found than Drums in these 64,000 cards because graded Drums were encountered less frequently before the 2 large Drum finds took place and before PSA began to track backs. We know for a fact that the 64,000 'unknown cards' do not contain either of the Drum finds because PSA only recently graded the St Louis find and SGC graded the Hunt find.

Even if we assume that Drum and UZIT exist in approximately the same numbers I think there may be one key factor that denotes a major difference between Drums and Uzits.


- Out of the 62 SGC graded Drums 33 grade Authentic and 8 graded as 10's with only 4 grading vg-ex or
better.

- Out of 81 SGC graded UZIT's 14 grade vg-ex or better.

- Out of 60 PSA Drums only 4 grade higher than vg-ex.

- Out of 33 PSA UZIT's 11 grade higher than vg-ex.

- Total of 25 UZIT's grading higher than vg-ex and only 8 Drums higher than vg-ex.

Condition may be the key factor that separates these very tough backs.

PS - No one knows how many ungraded examples of these backs exist. As these surface it's hard to say what impact it may have on our future perception of these backs.

Jerry

[scottglevy]

Jerry,

A very thoughtful post from someone who is secretly (ok not anymore) a top rare back collector. I agree with your sentiments.

Warm Regards,
Scott