New theory why American Beauty cards are narrower than other T206's

[FrankWakefield]

Timing wise, what if American Beauty 350 cards were the last of the 350s to be printed. And, what if they were the first of the 460s to be printed. Then, there wouldn't be as many transitions as to the number of cards printed across... Once from 12 to 13, then back again.

Seems to me with lithography, the various plates or stones for the fronts of the cards would be one big plate for each color pass. And to move from 12 to 13 would require completely redoing each of the plates for all of those cards. I don't think the cards were in there like pieces of removable type, I think there would have been multiple cards to a plate. If that's the deal, then 13 to a sheet doesn't seem likely to me.

It's a shame the narrow card for the cigarette package doesn't hold water anymore, that was such a nice reason.

[Jantz]

Ted

Am I missing something here?

Add one more card - "The same follows for the other two AB backs."

AB 350 frame 195 / 13 = 15
AB 350 no frame 39 / 13 = 3
AB 460 75 / 13 = 5.7692

I could be wrong, but 13 doesn't seem to work for the AB 460s.

I agree with your thoughts on sheets being 12 cards wide in the other brands and I've pretty much proven that.

Ironically, if you add 10 to those numbers ( 194 to 204, 38 to 48 and 74 to 84) things start adding up differently since 204, 48 and 78 are all divisible by 12. Possibly the number 15 could be the number we're looking for when it comes to the AB series.

Great post and worth researching.

Thanks

Jantz

[tedzan]

Jantz

13 divides into 78 very evenly......so, either four AB 460 double-prints, or possibly 4 new AB 460's might still be
found.....or, a combination of both.

Double-prints are very possible, since Crandall, Devore, Ford and McGraw are seen more than the other AB 460's.


TED Z

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by tedzan

13 divides into 78 very evenly......so, either four AB 460 double-prints, or possibly 4 new AB 460's might still be
found.....or, a combination of both.

Ted

I noted this also when I was running the numbers. Hopefully more members will have something to add to this thread since this is a subject I enjoy discussing. Maybe someday soon we can discuss the board's thoughts on the length of a T206 sheet. I don't recall, though I could be wrong, seeing it discussed before.

Jantz

[rebelsart]

I am pretty sure that the American Lithograph Company printed the T212 Obak cards as well as the T206 White border cards.
Judging from this "partial" T212 Obak sheet it seems as though 19 cards across is the correct number.


Art

[tedzan]

Art M

Are you sure that the Obak's were printed by American Litho. in New York City ?

I thought they were printed in California ?

Regards,

TED Z

[Jantz]

Art,

Very interesting!

Please keep in mind that you yourself referred to this as a "partial" sheet.

The scan you have presented is in a horizontal position and the card images are vertical, but what if the sheets were printed in a vertical fashion making the card images horizontal. Then, of course, the number 19 would be the sheet length and the width would still be unknown to us. I guess as collectors we could think that sheets were printed with the card images in the correct viewng position. Please keep in mind that this is one set that I know nothing about and any information from you or any other board member would be appreciated.

I believe though that the S74 Silks series may hold some evidence to the T206 AB theory. In Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia, he mentions two complete sheets known to exist. One sheet had the card dimensions of 12 rows x 12 columns or 144 silks total. The other sheet displayed 156 silks total. The dimensions were 13 rows x 12 columns. Of course, this is going under the assumption that the ALC printed the silks. If they did, then it could be quite possible for AB T206s to have been printed on a larger sheet size than the regular sheet size used for the other T206 brands.

Jantz

[judsonhamlin]

Thanks Ted!
When I read through your threads, I'm always been impressed by the time and effort you've been able to put in. The 74 number, then, came across as odd. I like the idea of 13 card sheets for AB cards. And, it would not surprise me at all if a couple of the 460's were double printed. With regard to the other two issues, the numbers make a great deal more sense if we think in terms of a 13 card sheet.
Frank W.'s point is well taken, but if the "stones" were individual to the player images and assembled for each sheet, then that, to me, would be conclusive. If there were miscut cards of the same player with different players to the left or right, that would be substantial proof that the stones were secured individually onto the printing plates (not sure of my terms here).
Great job (again).