T206 backs in scarcity order

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by E93

I don't want to raise a ruckous here, but Ty Cobb brand should probably be #3 in the rankings, thus moving everything below it down a notch.

I also have complete trust in Jim's analysis of the relative scarcity of these.
JimB

With all but 1 or is it 2 Cobb backs displaying a glossy front, and NONE of the other 15 Cigarette companies having ANY glossy fronts, why do you think the Cobb back even belongs on this list at all? Isnt it perfectly clear these cards were produced completely seperate from all other T206's? This card doesnt qualify as a true T206 card IMO.

[tedzan]

1st....In recent times we have established (Macon, GA newspaper advertisement) that this Red Ty Cobb was
printed and issued in 1910. Furthermore, the Senator Russell collection confirms the dating of this card.

2nd....Not all 15 Ty Cobb cards have a glossy front. The very recent one in Bill Goodwin's forthcoming auction
does not have any hint of gloss on its front.

Incidently, I have two regular T206's that have a gloss on their fronts.


TED Z

[E93]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

With all but 1 or is it 2 Cobb backs displaying a glossy front, and NONE of the other 15 Cigarette companies having ANY glossy fronts, why do you think the Cobb back even belongs on this list at all? Isnt it perfectly clear these cards were produced completely seperate from all other T206's? This card doesnt qualify as a true T206 card IMO.

Chicago,
This has been debated extensively here in the past. In a nutshell, "T206" was a designation coined by Burdick (not by the American Tobacco Company in 1909-11) and used in the American Card Catalog to indicate the white border baseball subjects used as fronts for the American Tobacco Company brands advertisements issued from 1909-1911. We know from more than one period newspaper article that Ty Cobb brand was issued by the ATC in 1910. Burdick included it in his book as a T206 brand and it meets his qualifications. Since he coined the taxonomy and defined its parameters, I think it makes perfect sense to go with his evaluation, especially since it still meets his criteria by our knowledge today. Unless one wants to do a complete overhaul of the taxonomy and eliminate American Beauties because of their smaller size, or divide it into sets by brand, or series, or factory, I don't think a partial change to the long established paradigm is advisable. To me, it makes sense to keep the parameters as simple and straightforward as possible. I hope that helps.
JimB

[E93]

Thanks for your comments Ted. I did not see them before writing mine. By the way, I think the appearance of a second example without a glossy front raises interesting questions. From what I hear, the person who consigned one to Goodwin actually found two and is keeping the other. Do you know if the other also does not have a glossy front? If not, that would mean 20% of known examples do NOT have it.
JimB

[tedzan]

I am aware of the 15th Ty Cobb back, but Bill only had one at the show. I compared it closely with a couple of regular Red Cobb's.
The only discernable difference in the fronts was that the Ty Cobb back card had a richer color of red on its front.


TED Z

[cfc1909]

brown lenox examples

cobb-bat off-pretty sure there are 2 examples of this card
lajoie
lake
leach
merkle
jordan
willetts
burch
willis
latham
manning
overall

I think the ranking of 1 & 2 could go either way-I only know of about a dozen examples of each-one thing for sure is there are way less examples of brown old mill and brown lenox then there are of bl 460.

coupon 1 I have not followed long enough to make an accurate ranking but I am pretty sure it would be between 4 to 8-Uzit Drum difficulty maybe just a bit easier-red Hindu -Lenox black

cobb back is like brown old mill and brown lenox with around a dozen examples

[JerryTotino]

Jim,

I did some searching of auction results and also looked at some old net54 threads.

In addition to the Brown Lenox subjects you have already listed you can also add:

Pfeister (Chicago N. L.)
F. Smith (Chicago and Boston)
Cy Young
Chase

There is a good chance there are possibly other subjects and/or more examples of the same subjects already listed.

PS - Even though I agree that the Brown Old Mill is extremely rare I do not think that it should be listed as a standard issue back. Since all the confirmed copies are hand cut this points to this back as never having been officially issued.

Jerry

[cliftons8]

I'm sure these have been shown before, but can someone post a brown and black Lenox and Old Mill side by side to compare.


Also, on the lines of a Coupon Type 1. Would a trade for this and a Red Hindu be equal or would one have more monetary value. Assume both were the same grade of common card.

Thanks,
Mike