Hassan Sign on eBay - Cobb/Mathewson

[drc]

It's safe to say it's a reproduction. Note that the seller never claims that it is old, vintage or original.

[ctownboy]

My take?

If it is something that old, that large and has those two players on it and it only sells for $197.50, IT IS FAKE!!!!

Look, if it is on eBay and a myriad number of people can see it, then chances are, a FEW people would take a flyer on it being real and bid it up higher IF they thought they could turn around and put it in a major auction and sell it for much more. I mean, who WOULDN'T spend $500 dollars on something if they could turn around and flip it for $5,000 dollars (or more).

That didn't happen. Plus, I have seen signs like these come up before.

David

[perezfan]

Carlton...

The lingering 1% chance that it is real definitely does eat away at us, as collectors. And to your point, most (if not all) of the cons are just circumstantial. But when you put the facts all together, you have a pretty clear answer.

Plus, the seller never pictured the back, which seems fishy. No mention of an easel-back or other mounting device. And the corners/borders do not show proper aging... one would expect more rounding of the botttom corners as well as various edge faults.

None of this is described by the seller. Normally on an authentic piece of this magnitude, there would be a dozen photos, including close-ups of the key features. The one single distant photo served as a tip-off to me, that it's a reproduction. Plus (to David's point) the seller made no claims as to its authenticity.

But still that 1% chance will drive us nuts

[drc]

When I say there's 99% chance something is fake, some people will think "So he's saying there is a chance it's real."

I would say there's 99% chance it's a fake. That's the best I will do without seeing it in person. Read into the remaining 1% as you wish.

[CarltonHendricks]

The key to fully comprehending this piece is examining it in person, which we can't. Based on the aspects we've hashed over here it's most likely a reproduction. I would say the most incriminating evidence would be the sellers treatment. The fact it's die cut precludes it from being a Kinko's color copy anyone could make with little effort...and puts it in an advanced reproduction category. The question then becomes, was it intended to deceive or was it intended just as a neat novelty. Is the faded appearance from poor photography or was it fatigued to deceive? Who made it, where was it made? how many were made? The science of how this came to be is interesting and it's good for us to examine if for nothing else just to be familiar with reproductions. Initially when I first posted the thread, I didn't know what useful info I'd garner...ideally it would have been nice if someone would have said..."oh yeah I had those made years ago just for fun". Then we could have gotten to the bottom of the who what where. But we have what we have from our community, and I'd say Net54 is probably the best place on the planet to discuss it based on the collective experience here.

[perezfan]

I just confirmed that Helmar Brewing had these Signs made up to go along with the Cap Anson Padlocks. 40 of these were manufactured last summer.

JK... sure would have made for some nice closure, though!

[ctownboy]

Carlton,

Go to eBay and look at seller ACOFIND.

This person is from Muncie, Indiana and is KNOWN for selling fake items. PLENTY of fake items. One Net54 member got burned from buying a fake Bond Bread poster and I have seen this guy sell numerous other fake items over the years.

He has sold stuff under the name theolestuff and fourducks. Some of that stuff includes; Mickey Mantle Topps Giant cards, Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron Jello cards, Harley Davidson, Indian Motorcycle and Winchester advertising signs, Shirley Temple blue glass creamers, brown Mason jars and Dazey butter churns.

Most of this crap is not easy to reproduce (like a T206 is with a laser printer) so he HAS to be getting is somewhere (or making it himself).

I have reported him to eBay for YEARs and they do NOTHING about it even though they can go to Toolhaus.org and enter these names and SEE that buyers have complained about him selling fake items.

So, just because this piece might look real, would be hard to reproduce and the seller leaves some questions about it, that does NOT mean it IS real and that other people are passing it up because it is in the wrong category or it is too expensive for them.

Heck, I have very little money to spend on cards right now BUT if this thing were real and I could get it for $1,000 dollars and then turn around and sell it in a major auction house for much more then that, I would. I am SURE other people would too.

Scam artists are hoping (and preying) on people who have that 1% question in the back of their minds about "if" things just "might" be real.

David

[patrick7776]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I just confirmed that Helmar Brewing had these Signs made up to go along with the Cap Anson Padlocks. 40 of these were manufactured last summer.

JK... sure would have made for some nice closure, though!

I have a sign like the one that was offered in the ebay auction, i bought mine on ebay a couple months ago and i thought i would be able to flip it, i did not know the controversy that surrounded this piece.

I have examined this sign carefully and it is old, it looks old and smells old, and it is not a repo from the newspaper ad, because it is not the same as the newspaper ad, as my hi res scans will prove.

I also contacted Helmar Brewing a couple months ago, and this is their statement regarding this piece (this is a direct copy of the original, we dont do copies.)



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And the card is further away from the bat



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and here is the back



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the photos are bigger then they pop up on image shack, so it the thumbnail and when the pic pops up, right click mouse and hit view image, and the hit the magnifying icon.

[NYHighlanderFan]

I figured to search for an older thread with the topic I'm questioning instead of beginning a new thread altogether.

The Hassan Cigarette window display in question here looks to be identical to the ad that ran in the Philadelphia Sunday newspaper on May 20, 1912. They look identical except the window card is a larger size and the spaces between the bat handles and the Hassan banner are orange in the window ad and white in the newspaper ad. And the bottom trim was added which was not on the newspaper ad. (Whoever made this Hassan piece did a nice job on it. They just needed to put a year on it. And that's the only thing I dislike about what Helmar Beer is doing. They're making really cool new stuff look old and not putting a year on the stuff. But that's another topic.)

My question is how many original newspapers with that full color ad are known? And did it only run that one day with the Plank article below? The non-color Old Mill and Hindu T206 ads which ran in several different advertising markets and even repeated in several different papers. The ad is allegedly part of the back page of a several-page Sunday baseball suppliment.

If anyone has info on this ad, please share! Thanks and hope you all have a blessed Fourth of July!!!

One other thing...why in earlier posts in this thread is Ohio being ripped on?

[perezfan]

It's nothing against Ohio (I'm still a big Reds fan after many years removed). It is simply in reference to the fact that many reproductions and bogus items have originated there.

I haven't monitored it as much lately, but for a while it seemed that every questionable (or downright fake) piece on ebay was being sold by an Ohio-based seller.

I'm sure that others who read this can verify, and perhaps even reel off some of those sellers' names.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by perezfan

It's nothing against Ohio (I'm still a big Reds fan after many years removed). It is simply in reference to the fact that many reproductions and bogus items have originated there.

I haven't monitored it as much lately, but for a while it seemed that every questionable (or downright fake) piece on ebay was being sold by an Ohio-based seller.

I'm sure that others who read this can verify, and perhaps even reel off some of those sellers' names.

For whatever reason Ohio seems to be where a large percentage of fakes and repros come from. The only fake E94 overprint I have ever seen came from there as well as an Old Put E98 fake. I think fraudsters clamor to Ohio for the weather, or something .

[NYHighlanderFan]

okay enough about my home state.

Anything else about that newspaper advertisement itself?