Moral Quandary

sayhey24 · #1 03-04-2010, 11:54 AM

I'm going to disagree with most of the posters so far (although I just read that Leon is doing the same).
Whenever faced with a tough decision, I ask myself what would I teach my young children to do in a similar situation. In this case, the decision suddenly becomes easy. The bat has meaning, perhaps even deep meaning, to the collector, but has an even more powerful emotional tie to the family. The collector will in the long run be far richer (and I don't mean financially) by seeing to it that the bat gets to the family.
Here's one more criteria you can use -- something I picked up from one of my favorite authors years ago and has served me well over the years. Whenever faced with a tough decision, invariably the tougher choice is the right choice.
In this case the easiest thing to do would be to keep the bat and forget about it -- the tougher choice for the collector is giving up the bat, but it's the right choice.

Greg

whitehse · #2 03-04-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayhey24

I'm going to disagree with most of the posters so far (although I just read that Leon is doing the same).
Whenever faced with a tough decision, I ask myself what would I teach my young children to do in a similar situation. In this case, the decision suddenly becomes easy. The bat has meaning, perhaps even deep meaning, to the collector, but has an even more powerful emotional tie to the family. The collector will in the long run be far richer (and I don't mean financially) by seeing to it that the bat gets to the family.
Here's one more criteria you can use -- something I picked up from one of my favorite authors years ago and has served me well over the years. Whenever faced with a tough decision, invariably the tougher choice is the right choice.
In this case the easiest thing to do would be to keep the bat and forget about it -- the tougher choice for the collector is giving up the bat, but it's the right choice.

Greg

I am more inclined to think along these lines as well. I know if my dad played minor league ball and he didnt have any saved items from that time in his life and a bat from his playing days showed up on the internet, I would do all I can to obtain that item. I am sure the emotional attachment to that bat is far greater to the family than it is to the collector. I totally understand how a collector would want to keep this item in their collection but if it was me, I would make the bat available to the family provided they could show me evidence that the bat is indeed once used by their family member.

As to Leons post about not feeling bad for not making this item available to the family, I fully agree since the bat is yours and you can do what you will with it....but if its me the family would be owning it for the cost I paid for it!!

Kawika · #3 03-04-2010, 12:43 PM

Cut up the bat for relic cards. Everyone's a winner!
Nah, nah, jus' kiddin'.
It's a tough quandary alright, moral or otherwise. You've gotten good advice across the spectrum already. What I would do falls somewhere in there. We're not taking a vote here so I won't weigh in with my two cents. Sleep on it a day or two and the right answer will manifest itself.
(Was just about to press "Submit Reply" and saw Barry's post. He made a good point. Nobility can turn around and kick you in the derriere. Have you considered relic cards?)

barrysloate · #4 03-04-2010, 12:24 PM

Sayhey- I'm going to disagree. Giving up the bat is a noble choice, and a nice gesture. But Dan has no obligation to do so, and is no worse a person for deciding to keep it.

I'm going to tell a story without naming names, but for many it will be obvious who I am talking about. A very prominent collector amassed a world class collection partly by endearing himself to the widows and families of deceased ballplayers. He always told them that he would cherish all the keepsakes that they ultimately gave him for free, and that he hoped to one day build a museum to preserve them forever.

When many years later he sold his collection and kept all the proceeds, I heard that many of these families were quite upset. The point of the story is you don't know what the family will do with Dan's bat. Today it is something they would love to own. Five years from now they might decide they want to sell it. So why should Dan feel obligated to offer it to complete strangers? He might say to them if I ever decide to sell it I will contact you first, and that would certainly be the proper thing to do. But I am suspicious by nature, and wouldn't automatically assume that parting with the bat is the noble gesture. It's his bat to do as he thinks best.

I'm editing this to add I know my example isn't exactly comparable to Dan's, it's just that once you part with the bat you have absolutely no idea what will become of it. Maybe the family will be offered a great sum for it and decide to sell it themselves. You don't know, and it happens all the time.

sayhey24 · #5 03-04-2010, 12:44 PM

Barry --

I totally agree that Dan is not obligated to sell the bat. All he is obligated to do is make a choice. Since he asked, I offered my opinion on the decision making process, and what I would do in this situation. I only know Dan through a few things I've bought from him, but he's always struck me as one of the nicest guys on here. I think he's been offered a lot of thoughtful advice here, and my opinion of him will remain the same regardless of what he decides to do with the bat.

Greg

barrysloate · #6 03-04-2010, 12:56 PM

That's fair Greg, and the one thing we don't know is just how important the piece is to Dan. We all have favorites, and is this a can't-live-without-it piece, or simply a nice piece in his collection? He did say he couldn't replace it, so I guess to him it is pretty high up there.

Every Sunday the New York Times Magazine section has a column written by Randy Cohen called The Ethicist. People write him letters dealing with these kinds of ethical dilemmas, and he explains what he feels is the right thing to do. I bet he would have an opinion here, as we do.

slidekellyslide · #7 03-04-2010, 01:19 PM

In the general sense I believe historical artifacts like this "belong" to the family and thus it may not really be a "moral quandary", but in my head it is. I have offered it to them at my cost...I kinda hope that it is more than they want to pay. If not I'll let it go.

About 5 or 6 years ago when the Matty McIntyre photos got removed from the album and sold as single photos a few of them were sold as "unknowns" and I picked them up knowing that I could eventually identify them....one of them I thought looked strikingly like Sam Thompson, I posted my thoughts about the photo on the old Net54 site and Joe G emailed me to tell me that he knows the family of Big Sam and that I should contact them to see if they think it is him...well I did and I forged a friendship with Keith Thompson (Sam's great-nephew) who told me that it was indeed Big Sam and that photos of him were very rare...He wanted to purchase it, but I didn't want to sell it...he never once pressured me and I made a really nice copy and sent it to him...well for a couple of years whenever I looked at it, it kind of ate away at me so finally I just contacted him and asked him if he wanted to purchase it for my cost and he did...it did make me feel better. I know that every time I look at the bat I will get this same feeling.

Leon · #8 03-04-2010, 01:37 PM

Dan- You are a good man. Not that we are alike but I would have done the exact same thing. At the end of the day, and when any of us are on our last leg, it won't be about what we "have", but about what we have "done." I truly feel this way. I did mean it though when I said I wouldn't feel any differently about you regardless....but your actions make me know that I had my thinking of you in the right place. I am sure you will never regret the decision or offer you made. I know I wouldn't. take care

ps...it was ironic that he found that post about the bat from the old Network54 board and emailed me that way. He and I even spoke on the phone and I told him you would be easy to get a hold of. I said I thought I could help in that matter

. Since he is with a Sheriff's dept I thought it might have something to do with something legal, but alas it was personal

.

drc · #9 03-04-2010, 01:50 PM

If it was a purple heart of love letters to his wife, I would say the family might have special rights. But, in the scheme of things, it's just a baseball bat.

Realize, fathers will their stamp or or rare book collection to a neighbor's son because he knows the kid appreciated and would enjoy the collection more than his kids would. Upon retirement, a man may give his high end brief case to a co worker. So there's no automatic familial moral right to everything someone had. The player may have never owned the bat, or gave it to his teammate or even a fan-- it was never intended for family. If he gave it to the family and the family wanted it, then why don't they still have it?

If I met a old co-worker of my dad, and he showed me a fancy paperweight of my dad's and that my dad gave to him, I would be beyond rude to say "He was my dad. Give it to me." In reality, I would be impressed this guy still had and and used the paperweight and would count him as the rightful owner. I may be my dad's only son, but that doesn't mean I have moral rights to everything that was ever in his office. In fact, the stuff he gave to co-workers I clearly would not have claims to.

In short, I wouldn't buy an argument that anything and everything that ever belonged to a ball player belongs to the family, legally or morally. If you want me to pick the moral owner of that paper weight, I would pick the co-worker.

In fact, if the player knew what an avid collector and historian of Nebraska baseball you are, there would be very good chance that he would give the bat to you. Would he be glad to learn that a Nebraska superfan owns his bat in the 21st century? I would assume so.

steve B · #10 03-04-2010, 01:55 PM

Editing to say that while I was typing , making lunch and thinking , things seem to have already been sorted out. Sometimes I'm just slow

I think there's also a bit more information needed which Dan probably has or can get.
Like - What was their overall approach? There's a big difference between "we'd really love it. Might it be available" and "a relative used it give it to us"

For me another thing would possibly be their interest/understanding of the items place in the overall history of things. From the little description, I'd say it's a pretty important piece of local baseball history. Some people care about that, some just don't get it. or even care to get it.

And it's not just people but institutions that can be that way. I have some items from a top tier bike racer from 1895. When I bought it, I had the underbidder asking me to donate it to a local museum that was opening. Once they'd opened, I visited to see what the place was like. Nice people, who hadn't much of an idea about most of the items they had. And absolutely no idea who the rider was or anything he'd accomplished. Plus a fair portion of the items they had were funny in a somewhat sad way. Triangular rocks displayed as arrowheads, and a "replica" of a bleriot plane made of 2x4s and a lawnmower motor. I'll get them scans and copies eventually, but the originals are staying with me for the forseeable future.

Steve

ChiefBenderForever · #11 03-04-2010, 02:06 PM

I would try to get to know them a little bit and find more out. Do they live near you ? They could be huge Husker fans and have premo season tickets !! I see you offered it to them at what you paid, that was very nice, looking forward to hear how it pans out.

Leon · #12 03-04-2010, 02:26 PM

The requestor was very nice and very unassuming on the phone. I am sure that is the way he was with Dan also. It would mean a great deal to their family if he got it. I didn't get the whole story but I think it had to do with this gentleman's great grandfather or grandfather. Maybe the bat was the great grandfathers and this gentleman was trying to acquire it for his dad. Maybe Dan'o can fill us in but I know it was an immediate family type of heirloom. (at least that is what I think I recall). Bottom line is the gentleman was very nice on the phone. best regards

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