Here's another beauty...

[henson1855]

Tough to pass off a modern Rawlings 9-11 baseball,as a vintage ball,I personally think the balls this guy does look amazing,you can speculate on the intentions of the buyer but c'mon not everyone is out to ruin the hobby or get over on someone maybe the buyer doesn't have 20k laying around to buy a real one,on the other hand if someone tried to pass this off as authentic it's a rawlings baseball the sigs are stamped not real hard to figure out.I have been searching for an Addie Joss and a Willie Keeler autograph for many years,my problem is not the cost of thes pieces it's the availability,to my knowledge a total of two Joss autographs have surfaced and are now in private collections,Keeler is nearly as scarce,I had this guy do one of each for me on baseballs,they look amazing,and display nice among my authentic baseballs,does that mean I am not a true collector or I am damaging the hobby,hardly,the purist might frown upon this but so what you should be able to buy and collect what you want. I think people who sell reprints and pass them off to people as anything but,are doing great damage to our hobby and we should keep calling them out,just as I am a true believer in buyer beware, a little bit of basic knowledge about what you are buying doesn't hurt either.

[FUBAR]

is this what you call an "Immaculate inscription" ??

Whats next a Ruth auto from the UD Ruth Heroes cards??

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by henson1855

Tough to pass off a modern Rawlings 9-11 baseball,as a vintage ball,I personally think the balls this guy does look amazing,you can speculate on the intentions of the buyer but c'mon not everyone is out to ruin the hobby or get over on someone maybe the buyer doesn't have 20k laying around to buy a real one,on the other hand if someone tried to pass this off as authentic it's a rawlings baseball the sigs are stamped not real hard to figure out.I have been searching for an Addie Joss and a Willie Keeler autograph for many years,my problem is not the cost of thes pieces it's the availability,to my knowledge a total of two Joss autographs have surfaced and are now in private collections,Keeler is nearly as scarce,I had this guy do one of each for me on baseballs,they look amazing,and display nice among my authentic baseballs,does that mean I am not a true collector or I am damaging the hobby,hardly,the purist might frown upon this but so what you should be able to buy and collect what you want. I think people who sell reprints and pass them off to people as anything but,are doing great damage to our hobby and we should keep calling them out,just as I am a true believer in buyer beware, a little bit of basic knowledge about what you are buying doesn't hurt either.

But Mike, you are a guy who is a collector, and will not pass the stuff into the hobby. The issue is that many people out there ARE the type to pass it off as real, esp such a convincing item. The type of ball, yeah, but we see a lot of "unknown balls" in the Hobby. Am I too cynical? Maybe, but with all of the negative stuff in the hobby, and in this case, so many bidders for a "replica Ruth", Id say at least some of them who bid had evil intentions.

Id rather wait for a cheap Ruth cut or a lesser condition ball w top shelf authentication like JSA or PSA, than buy that if I was a collector. Again tho, finances are an issue, and availability in your case w Joss and Keeler. Very difficult issue indeed, just means even more vigilance is needed when buying rare and/or expensive signatures.

[RichardSimon]

Mike - here is a quote from the guys ad on ebay:
"Signatures and logos are transferred onto the ball made from original images of Babe Ruth & Lou Gehrig signatures"
Where did he get the original images of Joss and Keeler?
With so few authentic ones around, and more forgeries of them out there than authentic ones, do you know for sure that the baseballs you have are replicas of authentic signatures?
Did you supply him with authentic images?
--

[Scott Garner]

BTW- On the topic of Addie Joss signatures, I have a question for all of the members. Does anyone have what they believe is a legitimate exemplar of Joss's sig? I collect the signatures of ALL pitchers that threw a no-hitter. I was just wondering if anyone could even produce an exemplar as a reference point since the likelihood of owning one is not only cost prohibitive, but in all likelyhood a near impossibility. Thanks!

[keithsky]

Chris Morales and Stat have exemplers for a Joss autograph, Just ask them or Coachs Corner since there in the auctions every so often. They have everybody even Sitting Bull.

[henson1855]

Scott,I will email you a pic of Addle's sig.a book will be out late this year hopefully, by Ron Keurajian with an example of every HOF'ER'S autograph,from what I understand,it has taken years to put together,and there will be one or both of the Joss sigs that have surfaced,so I am looking forward to it coming out Ron emailed me and said he was talking to publishers and hopefully it will be out by Christmas.

[Scott Garner]

Hey Mike,
Thanks for the info about the upcoming book that will include exemplars of all HOF sigs. I'll look for it!

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Chris Morales and Stat have exemplers for a Joss autograph, Just ask them or Coachs Corner since there in the auctions every so often. They have everybody even Sitting Bull.

Actually, Sitting Bull's autograph is not uncommon. While performing with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, Sitting Bull would sell autographed cards to patrons.

(The above should in no way be interpreted as an endorsemant of Cris Morales, Stat Authentic, or Coach's Corner.)

[danc]

By saying that's it's not "not" uncommon, you are saying that it's "ordinary" or "widespread". How many Sitting Bull autographs have you owned or seen?

Childlike signature = fraudulent in many cases with Sitting Bull and sure he played the role of Bob Feller in the late 19th Century (as did Geronimo, Annie Oakley and even the Red Baron sold signatures), but how many of these actually survived over the 120-125 years?

RR Auctions have sold eight signatures in fourteen years and average out to about $4,000 per ($8,000 for playing cards).

As far as these exemplars go of 19th Century and early 20th Century players, these authenticators have all invested in the Sports Collector's Digest (figures that they published it, huh?) Mark Allen Baker book of Hall Of Fame signatures. Wait until Ron's book comes out and you will see that Dan Brouthers didn't sign his name like a nine year old.

And Ron is still missing a few for his book and he won't use examples from the Coach Factory for the book.

DanC