Barry Larkin and the Hall of Fame

[chaddurbin]

darrell, dwight, dewey...blah. by any name he was still more valuable to his team than rice.

4-5 good years with alot of help from his ballpark does not make a hall of famer. he was an above average hitter, with minimal defense, and no speed...who doesn't get on base. put him in another park with a normal lf, and he's kirk gibson (except gibson could run and catch better...probably hit better too if he was playing half his games at fenway even tho he's lefty)

the grassroot movement to get rice in amongst old-timer voters as a giant middle finger to the new-school metrics crowd notwithstanding...rice is not a hof'er.



.....also there's not much skill in retrieving balls hit off a short left field that would've been outs otherwise...which i'm sure alot of rice's opponents had to do when he was at bat

[D. Bergin]

So 1975 to 1986 equals 4-5 "Good" years?

I've deduced anybody who has ever played in Fenway or put up favorable numbers in their "home" park is disqualified from HOF consideration.

I've also learned that landing in the top 5 in MVP voting 6 times and placing in the top 20, eight times must mean you only had "good" seasons. The people who actually watched him play and voted for him in consideration for the MVP, despite his ornery attitude towards the press, must have just been giving a giant middle finger to the "new school metrics crowd".

I'd like to give a giant middle finger to them myself.

Leading the league in total bases 4 seasons, landing in the top 10 in triples 4 times and being a perennial .300 hitter and putting up gaudy power stats in a pitchers era means nothing because you didn't walk enough or steal bases.

Apparently Power hitters are no longer valuable to their teams.

Is Reggie Jackson a questionable HOF'er? ............because if you compare his best seasons with Rice's best seasons, Rice comes out very favorable.

The only thing Jackson really had on Rice was longevity, and he stole a few bases early in his career while Rice hit for a higher average. He also didn't walk very much and struck out a lot.

I've learned through reading some of the anti-Jim Rice blogs on the internet in regards to his HOF candidacy, that the HOF has sold themselves out by letting him in.............even though he has better stats then 1/2 the guys already in the Hall.

I'm also sick of the "ohhhh, just because we let this guy in.........and this other guy.............oh and those three dozen other guys...........doesn't mean we have to let THIS guy in. We need to preserve the sanctity of the HOF and not repeat the mistakes of the past."

Please.............all of a sudden YOU'VE decided to raise the standards of the HOF.............because the standards you're talking about haven't ever been part of the HOF, past maybe it's first 5 years of it's existence.

I've also learned that long established stats like Hits, Runs, RBI's, HR's, Batting Average, Doubles, Total Bases and Triples are over-rated and no longer mean squat. Neither does being constantly recognized as one the the top 5 players on your league by your contemporaries. The AL during the mid-70's to the mid-80's was just one big pile of mediocre-ness.

It's all about Walks, OPS and other convoluted Bill James algorithms.

The same algorithms that try to tell me that Derek Jeter is a sub-par SS, even though I watch him every day and I know better, while some other guy who normally rides the bench for the Diamondbacks or the Brewers or wherever.........is actually the best all around SS in baseball. It's just that the fans, his manager, other players, scouts and the rest of baseball is too stupid to see it.

You've seen these guys actually play..........but it's all smoke and mirrors. You're not really seeing what you think you're seeing.

Right!

Jim Rice was just average.

Kirk Gibson LOL!!!!!!

[chaddurbin]

here's an old article that talks about jim rice's best 12 years stretch (and why he shouldn't be in the hall):

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives...n_buster_r.php


good teammates that get on base in front of him, inflated home park #s, make alot of outs, was not even that feared/dominant when compared to other players in his era.


edit: and why drag jeter and reggie into the discussion? unlike rice, they actually belong in the hall.