Does anyone actually have any interest in something like this?

[drdduet]

Why not issue a redemption card for the whole bat---I know, I know, economics--they can sliver up the bat hundreds of times. But to keep up integrity (in more ways than one) they could issue a redemption card for the bat and redemptions for "authentic" replicas of it. That way they satisfy "demand" and keep the artifact whole.

I know for sure that I would like to add an authentic wooden replica of a Ty Cobb game used bat to my collection--I would consider that a "hit."

I would like to see them do the same for jerseys and other pieces of the uniform as well--especially period pieces of the games legends. I would value a replica Ruth jersey more than I would a swatch of the real deal. They could even put there logo on it.

[T206Collector]

The economic reason that it is feasible for companies to cut up bats is that collectors don't value complete bats enough. If the value of an unchopped Cobb bat were so high, the company would never have bought it in the first place or chopped it up in the second place. Put another way, the value that the market has put on some artifacts is for them to be in pieces as opposed to whole.

Who is to say that the market hasn't appropriately assigned the differing values between a complete bat and the wood chipped bat that will keep just the right number of game-used Cobb bats in tact?

I blame the demand, not the supply.

What if there were 100,000 Cobb-used bats out there -- would that make a difference? 10,000? 1,000? How many is too few so that they must all be spared? If you say that all Cobb bats should be saved regardless of how many are out there, then I think your view of the historical import of things is a bit skewed. There is no reason that society needs to preserve 1,000 baseball bats that were all swung by the same baseball player.

[cwazzy]

I see both sides of the issue. I would prefer the bat stay in one piece but it's not up to me. I don't consider myself a modern collector but I do have a few St. Louis Cardinals HOF game-used cards. I could never afford an authentic game-used jersey or bat card. But for just a few dollars I can own a card that has pieces of jersey or bat that was used by Stan "The Man" Musial or Red Schoendienst or Bob Gibson. Is it wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But I enjoy them. It brings me closer to the players that I never got to see play because they were well before my time. They encourage me to do more research into their careers and accomplishments. If these cards bring me enjoyment is it such a bad thing to cut them up. Yes, they may just be 1/10,000 of a whole jersey, but how AWESOME is it to know that the piece of jersey in that card could have been worn when Musial crushed a game winning HR or Schoendienst made a diving stop to save a run from scoring? It's little things like that that make it fun to collect these abominations of the card world.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by drdduet

Why not issue a redemption card for the whole bat---I know, I know, economics--they can sliver up the bat hundreds of times. But to keep up integrity (in more ways than one) they could issue a redemption card for the bat and redemptions for "authentic" replicas of it. That way they satisfy "demand" and keep the artifact whole.

I know for sure that I would like to add an authentic wooden replica of a Ty Cobb game used bat to my collection--I would consider that a "hit."

I would like to see them do the same for jerseys and other pieces of the uniform as well--especially period pieces of the games legends. I would value a replica Ruth jersey more than I would a swatch of the real deal. They could even put there logo on it.

Upper Deck did that in 2000. Each "winner" could not afford the taxes associated with it, were forced to sell, and the bats were re-purchased by card companies and subsuquently pieced out.

[slidekellyslide]

Whatever happened to the days when you bought a box of cards for about $15 and hoped for a Dwight Gooden or Bret Saberhagen rookie card?

Personally I blame Upper Deck.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Whatever happened to the days when you bought a box of cards for about $15 and hoped for a Dwight Gooden or Bret Saberhagen rookie card?

Personally I blame Upper Deck.

Those were the good ole days...

[Rich Klein]

whole "game-used" issue before Upper Deck started their own in 1997. I will say, that this did not involve "vintage" issues until 1999.

I will also say, that when I was at Beckett, I know that our baseball people spoke to UD on numerous occassions and although this took a couple of years to implement, they never would purchase/cut up anything that might be down to a few artifacts (Ruth jersey, etc.). I don't know about their current policies.

I will also say, that currently, most of the relics cut up, are the more modern relics and not old-time relics. But there are even stadium seats cut up and let's face it, not all the seats survived in great condition so again, something OK to cut up.

Regards
Rich

[dstudeba]

What was the historical significance of this bat that was cut up?

[barrysloate]

Since this is a vintage baseball card chatboard, and most of the people posting here have a much greater appreciation for cards than for game used bats, let me pose a hypothetical question:

Suppose Upper Deck bought a T206 Wagner at auction, cut it into fifty pieces, and inserted each one of those tiny cardboard squares randomly into packs. Maybe some lucky collector would end up with the eyes, or some of the orange background, or the "WAG" of his name. Would anybody who supported the notion that it was okay to destroy the bat feel differently about decimating the holy grail?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Suppose Upper Deck bought a T206 Wagner at auction, cut it into fifty pieces, and inserted each one of those tiny cardboard squares randomly into packs. . . . Would anybody who supported the notion that it was okay to destroy the bat feel differently about decimating the holy grail?

The bats, jerseys, etc. that have thus far been more equivalent to a T206 Cobb than a T206 Wagner. And as much as I love T206 cards, if you want to cut up a T206 Red Portrait Cobb, be my guest.

I think the turning point is "historical significance" and there is just no evidence to me that this Cobb-used bat has much historical significance.

[bijoem]

I personally like the modern relic cards (football mostly).

but.... leave the old stuff alone.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

What was the historical significance of this bat that was cut up?

There is nothing historically significant about that bat in particular. The high price estimate is due to the fact that it has the etched signature part of the bat. Modern insert cards with Cobb bat swatches can be found on ebay for as low as $100.

If a youngster gets a kick out of ripping open a pack of cards and finding a card with a piece of a bat, then that is great. If the youngster sees a deceased player on a card, and decides to read up on Cobb and turn of the century baseball, then even better. I'm all for anything that creates excitement for new collectors.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by Wesley

There is nothing historically significant about that bat in particular. The high price estimate is due to the fact that it has the etched signature part of the bat. Modern insert cards with Cobb bat swatches can be found on ebay for as low as $100.

If a youngster gets a kick out of ripping open a pack of cards and finding a card with a piece of a bat, then that is great. If the youngster sees a deceased player on a card, and decides to read up on Cobb and turn of the century baseball, then even better. I'm all for anything that creates excitement for new collectors.

Well put!