What if..Burdick had classified T206's with respect to their individual 15 T-brands ?

drdduet · #1 02-24-2010, 12:20 PM

Another question--

What if Burdick had classified T206's based on their series?

A classification scheme like that would "make" a Piedmont 150 series only subject more similar to a Sovereign 150 only subject than to a Piedmont 350 series issue.

I believe there are strong logical arguments for the current T206 classification, T206 by brand classification, and T206 by series classification.

The United States was a much "smaller" place in 1909-1911, and distances were much greater (100 miles away was much "further" than it is today). Regional distribution of products was meant to be just that. It was unlikely and impractical for some kid in Virginia to communicate with a kid in NY about what cards he had and needed, let alone discuss what brands were associated with what subjects. Furthermore, many states like to leave Louisiana out of the US today, and I would imagine it was much easier to do in Burdick's time. We are our own 3rd world country in many ways!

Maybe there is also an argument to support T206 classification by brand AND series--T206 Piedmont 150 only series, T206 Sovereign 150 only series, T206 Sweet Caporal 150 only series, Hindu Southern Leaguers, Piedmont 150/350 SLers, Pied 350 only SLers, Coupon 350 only series, Coupon SLer series (150/350 and/or 350 only), Polar Bear 350 only, etc....I think a T206 purist would choose to look at the set this way. Whereas a T206 collector would look at calling a T206 set a collection of all the possible "fronts." Only my bank limits me from collecting as a purist!

Regardless, IMHO T206 consists of sets within a set. No matter how you slice up the Monster, it will grow another limb/head.

All of these white border cards (E's and T's, sports and nonsports) from this period have stories to tell, and I believe that analysis of the subject across all spectrums may reveal some yet unsolved mysteries or at least reveal leads to answers.

barrysloate · #2 02-24-2010, 12:23 PM

Dividing the set by series would be just as viable as sorting it by brands. That's the beauty and complexity of it.

tedzan · #3 02-24-2010, 12:38 PM

Regarding your......" All of these white border cards (E's and T's, sports and nonsports) from this period have stories to tell,
and I believe that analysis of the subject across all spectrums may reveal some yet unsolved mysteries or at least reveal
leads to answers. "

You are right, and we have looked at some of the "bigger pictures" on Net54 regarding the "interplay" between T206's, E90's,
Ramly's, T80 Militarymen, etc.

When I get a chance, I'll post the links to these threads.

TED Z

tedzan · #4 02-24-2010, 06:50 PM

Can anyone explain why Red Cross backs state......

" Factory #10, 5th Dist. N.J. "

When these cards are catalogued as a Louisiana issue ? ?

TED Z

drdduet · #5 02-24-2010, 07:24 PM

Hi Ted,

Lipset's Encyclopedia states:

"The factory is noted as No. 10 in New Jersey, and this only substantiates the concept that the geographical location of the factory noted on these cards and other tobacco cards have nothing to do with where they are actually found."

Prior to that statement he describes Red Cross as the third of four Louisiana issues (the others being Coupon, Victory, and People's Tobacco).

judsonhamlin · #6 02-24-2010, 08:13 PM

Factory 10, based on a quick google search ("tobacco factory" "New Jersey") was the Jersey City factory operated by the Lorillard company in the late 19th century and was part of the ATC prior to the 1911 breakup. So, by the time the T215's were issued (even if late in 1911) they would be a post-ATC issue.

tedzan · #7 02-24-2010, 08:31 PM

Well, this violates the FEDERAL LAW that dictates that the advertising premium can only be associated with the Tobacco
product whose Factory is identified on it. This is how the FED's kept track of the tax revenues.

Are you guys saying that these so-called Louisiana cigarettes were really produced in Jersey City, NJ....and, then shipped
down to the Bayou country ?

TED Z

ethicsprof · #8 02-24-2010, 12:43 PM

Darren:
"I believe the analysis of the subject across all the spectrums may reveal . . . ."
Yes, your unifying theory may well be the key, insisting that we step back
at a 'therapeutic distance' and see the connections, the interstitial areas we almost missed and begin to find answers which no question had asked.

all the best,
barry

drdduet · #9 02-24-2010, 01:03 PM

Right on Barry.

I as big a fan of Burdick as anyone. What he accomplished in his time is mind boggling. I can only imagine that if he were to do it today, he would have done it differently. His work was so thorough for the time that it may have actually prevented further research into the subject. As I read old hobby publications, Lew Lipset, etc. I come across statements that suggest just that. For example in Lipset T-card section of his Encyclopedia of Baseball cards he mentions that many collectors believe T213-1 to be a T206 issue but the ACC classifies it separately and that's that.

With everything we have available to us today and with more detailed lists of what is out there, I certainly see no harm and plenty upside in re-evaluating the subject.

The greatest obstacle I have in conducting this research, will be the lack of subjects in the rare issues. As stated before complete subject lists are lacking in many of the Louisiana issues because of rarity--this may slow the process but it won't stop it.

drdduet · #10 02-24-2010, 01:49 PM

Hi Ted,

I recall a few of those threads and they certainly helped fan the flames of the quest.

Hi Barry S.,

I sure ATC had no thoughts on what we collectors would think of as a set, and even more likely did not have the intention or care to categorize their offerings into anything other than a marketing tool. One of the obstacles to studying the subject is the fact that collector's have categorized and thus created divisions where divisions were not necessarily intended. For example--nonsports vs. baseball cards--when in fact they were issued together. Don't get me wrong, it's great for the baseball collector or nonsports collector, but not so much for the card purist.

barrysloate · #11 02-24-2010, 03:16 PM

Exactly Darren. A lot of our history is misinterpreted. We make assumptions about the T206 set that were never meant to be. But that's what collectors like to do.

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