1921 Koester's Bread Cards on E-Bay

[steve B]

It would really depend on the exact printing process used

As I understand it, the Koesters have a few cards that are only Koesters and that sheets were available, maybe as a premium?

The cards look lithographed, and the way that much lithography was done pre-computer is that the original art was photographed, and the "negative" (Actually a positive image) Was taped to a mask, which made a full plate size sheet with transparencies on it. This was used to make the printing plate, also by a photographic process. Since the Koesters had special cards, and only certain other cards from W575 they would have made a new plate. In most cases this would have been done with a new mask. And that's where the differences would happen. Since the old mask would still be needed to make plates for standard W575s It would be saved.
New photos would be taken, and a new mask made for the Koesters plate. It's nearly impossible to get the screen lined up exactly the same twice in a row, and I can pretty much guarantee that the guy doing the pictures wouldn't have even considered trying. His job was to take the pictures and to do it well and quickly.
Now bear in mind that It's really tiny differences we'd be talking about, Like in a particular row is it 3 dots between the border and an object, or is it more like half a dot two complete dots then another half dot. Or are the lines of dots at a 45 degree angle or at 50degrees. Not enough to matter to nearly anyone, but still a difference you could find.

There are other printing methods, and some of them would have a similar process, for others with a somewhat different process there might not be a difference. For typography there probably would be no difference since there would be actual blocks made for each card, and the W575 blocks would be reused.

This is one of the things That for me has crossed over from stamp collecting. There sometimes the printing method gets to be very important telling which stamp it is, and if it's real. Lithography, typography, and engraving have very different characteristics, and if it was printed by typography, but has litho characteristics then it's fake. And the tiny differences actually matter. 5 dots on Washingtons nose $100. 7 dots .20 (Not actual details, but you get the idea)

I'd love to see nice detailed scans either way, I think theres a good deal to be learned from them.

Steve

[DanP]

I just sent my Burkett and Youngs Koester Bread cards to SGC today. I asked the seller how he knew the Young was really a Koester Bread card. Here was his response:

The Youngs card is printed on cardboard, like the Burkett as they were cut from the Koester's Ad sheet. (Probably in 1921!!)
No W575 or E121 types come on cardboard, all are on paper!
John

I've read 5 years of N54 threads regarding W575 and Koester cards. I don't remember anyone else mentioning the "cardboard" argument. I examined them when I received them today, they were on cardboard (thick, definitely not just paper).

Does this make sense to the experts out there?

Thanks.
Dan

[rhettyeakley]

I just took out my entire W575-1 collection (along with many that I know came directly from "Koesters collections") and nearly all are on the same card stock-the only ones that weren't are cards that correlate to the E121 Series of 120 set. (Please keep in mind that I am talking about the W575-1A cards not the W575-1B cards I have written about extensively on this forum.) All of my cards are on the exact same card stock as the E121 Series of 80 cards. Keep in mind the E121 Series of 120 cards are on thinner stock than the 80 set is--a difference very easy to tell when you hold one of each set.

John, is a VERY knowledgable collector and normally I would believe just about anything he says, however, in this case the Koesters that were distributed with the bread are on the same paper as the other W575-1A cards I have. If the sheet Koesters cards were thicker, I can't speak to that as I don't have any in front of me right now--but I doubt they printed their cards on two different types of paper (the distributed cards and the sheet cards).

[rhettyeakley]

I just wanted to provide some pictures of a recent (also on ebay) Koesters Bread find. These were not sheet cut but were factory cut as seen in the scans...


From this grouping the Casey Stengel and Ed Brown are the only 2 that are "exclusive" cards thoretically distributed only with Koesters. The other 4 are all players that were produced with at least the E121 American Caramel set if not several other brand backs. I see no difference between these four and other W575-1 cards.

Also, of all the Koesters exclusive cards the Stengel shown here has been one of the most elusive to me over the years, so I am really excited to add him to the collection. He would definitely (in my opinion) be the second highest demand Koesters card (other than the Jesse Burkett).

Anyways, I just wanted to share another mini Koesters find.
-Rhett

[DanP]

Just an update to this thread:
I sent the 2 cards I won from this auction (Burkett and Youngs) cards to SGC. Unfortunately they would not encapsulate them because they were hand cut from a sheet (I guess they agreed they were in fact Koester Bread cards).

I then sent them to PSA just hoping for a PSA Auth Hand Cut. I found out last week that they did receive an Auth Hand Cut grade. I'm happy about that, but still disappointed that SGC would not grade them the same.

Dan

[fkw]

I once had a Highpockets Kelly handcut and the card stock was way thicker than a W575-1 or E121. I sold it years ago.
Anyone here have this exact card? It was obviously much thicker stock.

how is the card stock on these handcut cards from Feb?