1916-1920 Date for "Big Head" Strip Cards

[nolemmings]

I don't disagree with you Matt, except maybe your use of the word "overwhelmingly". I always wondered why these dates lean earlier than perhaps they should anyway--why not figure out the latest date and assume that was the year of issue, or maybe even the following season? Seems from the anecdotal evidence presented that very well may be the case.

[brianp-beme]

In accordance to the information provided by Matt, Mark, Rhett and others, and checking the player's careers, I think this set can be narrowed down to the 1918-1921 time frame. It is a small set, and all of the players depicted had a career of some note, which is pretty consistent with other small sets throughout the vintage era. Just think of some of the other comparable small group strip sets of this period; there are no obscure players included (please point out any exceptions to this). That is why I lean closer to the 1920 issue date--by this time all the careers of the included players had been well established.

The team designations on the uniforms, when seen, do not necessarily represent a specific team, as noted previously for Cadore and Bodie. The closest I see is the Baker card with a 'NYA' designation, which I surmise could indicate the New York Americans. The Konetchey card has a 'Y', which I could not figure out what in the fadoodle this would mean.

Also, it is interesting to note that Mark indicated an original find originating in the Washington DC area, as either 3 or 4 of the players in the set during this time frame were with the Senators (see below why this could be either 3 or 4). In the 1918-1920 time frame (sorry, didn't check 1921), the set is also heavy with New York Yankees (2-4 players, depending upon the year). It also appears there was no attempt to include a player from every team, as there are no players from Pittsburg or the Chicago Cubs.

Finally, there are two cards whose identities I believe can be questioned, due to both lack of team designations and the crude, non-realistic player drawings (the E91A and part of E91B, however maligned, have much more realistic facial portrayals of the players depicted).

First is the card of Burns. Unfortunately there were two George Burns, both with prominent careers, that played during the era, so I don't think we can narrow this down to either.

The other card is the one with the designation of 'Johnston'. The guidebooks have always listed this card as a mispelling of Walter Johnson, but there were two prominent players during this time frame with the last name of Johnston, so I think it possible that some assumptions were perhaps carelessly made. The card shows a player throwing righthanded, so we can probably eliminate Doc Johnston, but Jimmy Johnston of Brooklyn also had a notable career (along the lines of Cadore, Konetchey, Bagby and others depicted in the set) and was a righthander. Can anyone tell me for sure that this card is actually Walter Johnson? It certainly bears no resemblance to him. And other star players of the time, such as Speaker and Alexander, are not included in this set, so I don't think we can positively identify this card, especially with an inaccurate spelling, as that of Walter Johnson. Hope this doesn't throw someone's WaJo collection into a quandry.

Brian

[Matt]

Brian - wonderful comments and great point on WoJo. I'm going to shoot an email to his grandson (a board member) to see if there was a "Big Head" in grandpa's collection. Not that such a thing would answer the question conclusively, but if in 1921 WoJo thought he was the one depicted, I'd give that some weight.

Edited to add that the one known as WoJo does have a 'W' on his jersey which would not make sense for the Johnston possibility, though, as we've seen above, it's not altogether clear what those letters are for.

[bcbgcbrcb]

One thing to keep in mind regarding the WaJo card, his earliest card produced by Novelty Cutlery during the 1907-09 time frame incorrectly listed his last name as Johnston also. Maybe a common surname of the era........

[Matt]

and this one (Leon's):

[nolemmings]

Just think of some of the other comparable small group strip sets of this period; there are no obscure players included (please point out any exceptions to this)

hmm, who is Joe Murphy? He is listed as one of the players in the 20 card W519 set from 1920, and I cannot place the name.

Goldie Rapp is listed in two separate small (20 cards) strip sets in 1920--the W520 and the W522. Goldie Rapp did not play a big league game until 1921, when he split 2/3 of an unremarkable season between the Giants and Phils. Why did he merit inclusion in these sets?

The circa 1910 strip set from which Matt pulled a WJ card also includes in its 20 player size Willis Cole, who had played all of 46 games by then, and Oscar Stanage, who had played 78 games as a part-time catcher for Detroit.

Again, I don't disagree with the premise, but exceptions have been shown to exist.

The team designations on the uniforms, when seen, do not necessarily represent a specific team, as noted previously for Cadore and Bodie

I disagree. Juxtapose Bodie and Cadore as I suggested and they appear with their correct teams, and the remainder of the players showing an insignia appear to match up with their correct teams. I do not see a "Y" on Konetchy's uniform, perhaps you can enlarge that for us.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The circa 1910 strip set from which Matt pulled a WJ card also includes in its 20 player size Willis Cole, who had played all of 46 games by then, and Oscar Stanage, who had played 78 games as a part-time catcher for Detroit.

Todd - not to take the thread too far offtrack, but maybe that set is 1911 or 1912 and the Cole depicted is King Cole, not Willis Cole - I don't have a scan handy. King Cole went 20-4 with a league leading 1.80 ERA in 1910.
http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail2.aspx?lotid=1451

[brianp-beme]

Good points Todd--I was basing my statement about obscure players based upon memory of the players included in the smaller strip sets, which of course was for the most part faulty. And it does appear that Walter Johnson was identified as 'Johnston' on that other W-UNC card. The Big Head card appears to depict the player in a right handed 'follow-through' throwing motion, so with the 'W' identified (I could not see it in the scan) and the other card identified as 'Johnston', all thes factors do lead one to believe that the card was intended to depict WaJo himself. Although, as stated before, Big Heads are just about as artistically crude as they come.

I have the Konetchey card and it has a 'Y' designation.


Brian