1916-1920 Date for "Big Head" Strip Cards

[Matt]

I humbly submit for your consideration, my findings for the issue date of these strip cards. I understand that this topic may be a bit controversial since many RC collectors use the "1916-1920" dating to claim a 1916 rookie of a player, but please read with an open mind, as if you were coming to figure the date of this issue without any preconceived notions.

First a few words of clarification - when SCD lists these as "1916-1920" it is not because they were issued throughout that period, like the "1902-1911" designation on W600s. It is because they couldn't narrow the date based on playing careers of players included in the set. There is no evidence I know of, to suggest these were issued at more then one time.

In dating sets where no date is specified, we always assume the sets were issued at one time, unless player & team designations make that impossible. Otherwise, we would date all issues as a huge range starting from when the first included player started playing to when the last included player stopped playing. e.g. how do we know E96s were issued in 1910 and not over a series of years from 1905-1915 (or whatever the correct years are)? Again, the answer is, we always go with the assumption of a set issued at one time and find the time that all of the player/team combinations fit (1910 for the E96 issue). This is nothing new - just important to clarify before we move on.

With that in mind, we must consider who was included in this 20 card issue. With only 20 cards, the manufacturers certainly would want players who were well known. Therefore, the list of players included in the issue provides a great indication of when these cards were issued. Specifically:

Leon Cadore - he made only 7 appearance in 1915 where he racked up an 0-2 record and a 5.57 ERA. The following season he made only one appearance. As such, it's doubtful these were issued in 1916 or 1917 (the years following those paltry seasons).

Joe Judge - he played in only 12 games in 1915, again pointing to the 1916 issue date being doubtful.

Sam Rice - the future HOFer played in only 4 games in 1915, and only 1/3 of a season in 1916, again, pointing towards 1918 as being the earliest possible issue date.

Ping Bodie - after batting .229 during the 1914 season (and an argument with his manager) Bodie was sent down to the minors, and wasn't recalled until the 1917 season. It seems impossible they would pick him as one of the 20 players to issue, if the set was issued in 1916 or 1917 and the earliest this issue would include him is 1918.

As such, I think we can narrow down the issue to 1918 at the earliest and therefore suggest the issue be dated 1918-1920.

Interestingly, all 4 of those players had wonderful years in 1917. In 264 innings over 37 games, Cadore had a 2.45 ERA. Judge batted .285 (65 points above his 1916 average!) in 393 ABs and Rice batted .302 in 586 ABs. In 557 ABs, Bodie batted .291 and was 3rd in the AL in HRs.

[brianp-beme]

Matt--great research topic. I will check things out and see if I can add anything more to help narrow down the time frame.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Matt, good topic. Unfortunately the players aren't too much of a help.

I think the Bodie situation (having not played in the majors since 1914 and then again in 1917) and Cadore being such a miniscule part of the team in 1915 & 1916 I think it is pretty safe to eliminate the 1916 date from them. This would make them 1917 at the earliest. 1917 is still on the table though as it may have been made midway during that season as some of these guys were enjoying a good year.

It is hard to see the teams on the chests of the players that include them (which could be a clue if a player changed teams at any point during the span).

If I were a betting man the set probably dates to 1918-1922 or so.

-Rhett

Edited to add: There is nothing magic about the 1920 date either (as Mark says) they very well could be from after 1920.

[rhettyeakley]

Larry Doyle's last year in the majors was 1920, so I doubt these were made too long after that (although he was a very popular player.) They certainly could be from as late as 1921 but I doubt they are later than 1922.
-Rhett

Edited to add: Matt beat me with the Doyle info.

[rhettyeakley]

I have also found a handful of these along with some W520, W522, and a few W516-1's in a vintage collection as well--so the 1920 or so date is probably a bit more accurate.

[nolemmings]

Cadore is probably your best bet in helping to pin it down further, but questions remain. Although your rationale is sound, keep in mind that Joe Judge appears in the m101 sets from 1916 and that both Bodie and Rice appear in the 1917 E135 sets, so someone thought to include them in those earlier years when they were as yet unproven. Granted, one would think a twenty card set would focus on established stars, but other small sets have included some lesser lights as well. If Konetchy is supposed to be depicted in a Brooklyn uniform, he did not join that team until 1919.

Incidentally, in looking at the scans, it seems to me that the cards of Cadore and Bodie are mixed up for one another. Cadore is shown wearing a "C" when he never played for such a team (except a one-game stint for the Chisox in 1923), instead pitching for Brooklyn, and Bodie is shown wearing a "B" when he in fact was playing for Cincinnati and never played for a team beginning with "B". Also, the pose of Cadore is as a hitter when he was a pitcher and Bodie was considered a bit of a slugger, and, while cartoonish, the face on the Cadore card bears some resemblance to Bodie, IMO.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

...one would think a twenty card set would focus on established stars, but other small sets have included some lesser lights as well...

Todd - that's precisely the point - the M101 or E135 set had hundreds of players - they couldn't all be starters, let alone stars. Smaller sets that include lesser players are usually team issues. Especially with all of those players having large 1917 seasons (and thereafter) it's overwhelmingly doubtful they were included following only their 1915 or 1916 contributions.

[teetwoohsix]

Hello all-
Just wanted to say this is a great thread.As Todd pointed out,it seems that maybe they switched up the Bodie & Cadore letters on the uniform.

It got me to wondering if maybe they put the first letter of their last names on the uniforms of these two cards for some reason,rather than a letter for the team.

I'm sure I'm wrong,but could it be?

Thanks,Clayton

[nolemmings]

I don't disagree with you Matt, except maybe your use of the word "overwhelmingly". I always wondered why these dates lean earlier than perhaps they should anyway--why not figure out the latest date and assume that was the year of issue, or maybe even the following season? Seems from the anecdotal evidence presented that very well may be the case.

[oaks1912]

Although I have not specifically researched the players / team affiliations in this set, I do have one experience dealing with them from 'outside the hobby'. Nearly 20 years ago, I was contacted by a lady in San Francisco, who was in the process of settling her father's estate. Among the estate, were thousands of baseball cards and other memorabilia. Her father was raised in the Washington / Baltimore area , and from the surviving artifacts, he collected primarily from 1920-1925. Included in the collection were numerous strip card series including W-514, 516, 519, 520 and what are now referred to as 'Big Heads'. The condition of the cards was all over the map, along with the player / set distribution. Generally speaking the 514, 516 & 519 cards exhibited more handling. THe 520 and Big Heads had the least amount of handling. Based on this observation, and comparing it with the consistency of other similar finds, the lesser condition cards were likely the 'older' ones for this kid, and the nicer conditioned card were acquired later. By 1922, the original collector advanced to saving Senators scorecards and tickets, and there did not appear to be any cards collected by him from this time on. Its always possible that these cards were gifted to him , or otherwise acquired at a later time, but the various series of cards were well blended together. I would think that a 1921 or 1922 issue date would be more likely based on the above factors, and I would have a hard time accepting a pre 1920 date of issue, at least as far as the specific cards that I purchased in this single collection. . With strip cards / anonymous issues it is very possible that multi-year and multiple methods of distribution were utilized by various jobbers or retailers, depending on their individual needs, or regions represented. With strip cards, it will be challenging to completely answer most aspects of their existence. Hope this helps...

[Matt]

Mark - great information. I believe the original date range of 1916-1920 is based on when all the players depicted were playing, (Doyle being the first to exit after the 1920 season). That being the case, 1921 is probably the more correct end date as players from 1920 would be on cards produced in 1921.

So, we have 1918-1921 now and your anecdotal evidence leads you to believe 1921.

As an aside, I don't have an issue with changing "established" years for these, as it seems the way the years were previously established was by doing a quick run down of start-playing and end-playing dates of everyone combined and narrowing the window accordingly. It seems clear to me that such a quick & dirty method missed Bodie's hiatus (as well as the lack of PT for some of the players in those years) and therefore mistakenly put the possible issue date starting at 1916.