Ken Burns Baseball on...

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Brian-Chidester

Jim,

I disagree that the market is the ultimate arbiter of democracy...

If only someone had said that, your disagreement would be valid.

[Chris-Counts]

I'll stay out of the political debate, but I will confess I'm in the minority in that I have very mixed feelings about the Ken Burns baseball series. First of all, there is way too much camera time alloted to people like Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Jay Gould and Donald Hall, who as far as I'm concerned, have nothing to do with baseball's history ... they would have been better off filling up the screen with old ballplayers or simply putting all the voices in the background and show baseball clips when people are talking. And the series is undeniably slanted toward the New York teams, especially during the parts on the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s (my favorite eras). It's makes me wonder how much Burns really understands baseball history. There were 16 teams in the majors during these eras, but Burns focuses mostly on just three of them.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

And the series is undeniably slanted toward the New York teams, especially during the parts on the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s (my favorite eras). It's makes me wonder how much Burns really understands baseball history. There were 16 teams in the majors during these eras, but Burns focuses mostly on just three of them.

Chris is right. I would add that he also got the 1900's wrong. The Cubs were the best team, the Pirates 2nd, the Giants 3rd. You would never know that from Burns' film.

[ErikV]

I too have seen the Ken Burns Baseball Documentary. I seemed to
think the documentary started off excellent and ended mediocre.
Race was definitely talked about. (As I recall the later videos were
about Dominican players.) Overall I like Burns storytelling technique -
keeping his viewers interested throughout the entire story.

I recently watched his documentary on Mark Twain and just yesterday
purchased "Unforgivable Blackness: The Jack Johnson Story."

This leads me to my question: There have been countless outstanding
black athletes throught the past century. Of them who do you
consider the best all around? And who paid the biggest price socially?
Athletes such as Jack Johnson, Josh Gibson, Jesse Owens and Jackie
Robinson all come to mind.

[deadballera]

I keep the Ken Burns on the Ipod Video....

Great documentary !!

[Anthony S.]

The Seattle Pilots definitely got short shrift.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

First of all, there is way too much camera time alloted to people like Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Jay Gould and Donald Hall, who as far as I'm concerned, have nothing to do with baseball's history ... they would have been better off filling up the screen with old ballplayers or simply putting all the voices in the background and show baseball clips when people are talking.

I totally agree with Chris. Hearing those guys talk about how they reacted to a certain World Series outcome and so on and so forth got a little tiring. I'd rather hear more from the likes of Buck O'Neil, Bob Feller, etc...

[Brian-Chidester]

I liked hearing from the fans, the sportswriters and the poets. If it was just professional baseball players, you wouldn't have gotten the voice of the people who filled the seats and made the players heroes.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Brian-Chidester

I liked hearing from the fans, the sportswriters and the poets. If it was just professional baseball players, you wouldn't have gotten the voice of the people who filled the seats and made the players heroes.

The bias comes in because they're all of a particular political stripe, and not only that, but many are activists.

Probably the only reason he let George Will on the program is because he agreed to describe himself as a bitter conservative.

I'm sure you'd be less than impressed with Burns historical objectivity if his interviewee list included Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, and William F. Buckley among other conservatives, then allowed Doris Goodwin on as long as she described herself as a bitter liberal.

[mintacular]

The bias comes in because they're all of a particular political stripe, and not only that, but many are activists.

Probably the only reason he let George Will on the program is because he agreed to describe himself as a bitter conservative.

I'm sure you'd be less than impressed with Burns historical objectivity if his interviewee list included Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, and William F. Buckley among other conservatives, then allowed Doris Goodwin on as long as she described herself as a bitter liberal.

I think you are overplaying the "liberal bias" just a bit. Most of the movie avoids politicking and there are some great interviews and raw footage. In terms of the issue race, while it may have been a bit over the top, racism in baseball is a legitimate and important topic to delve into--better that than be glossed over IMO.

Racism is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. My parents are die-hard conservative Evangelical Republicans yet serve as missionaries in Africa. Abe Lincoln after all was a Republican. So drop the b.s. "liberal" posturing...

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by mintacular

[I] So drop the b.s. "liberal" posturing...

I agree with you on the race issue not necessarily being a liberal/conservative thing.

As far as pointing out who Ken Burns is, and the fact that his political views bleed over into his his documentaries at times, it is what it is.

If you don't want to know what people think about a topic, then you probably shouldn't start threads asking for opinions.

[E93]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Probably the only reason he let George Will on the program is because he agreed to describe himself as a bitter conservative.

My guess is he interviewed him because he knows a ton about baseball.
JimB

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by E93

My guess is he interviewed him because he knows a ton about baseball.
JimB

I don't really doubt that, but it's funny that the only conservative interviewee describes himself as a bitter conservative and all his friends as happy liberals.

It was played tongue-in-cheek, and you probably wouldn't think much about it unless you notice, as I did, his other interviewees we're mostly activist liberals. I don't recall Mario Cuomo saying he became a bitter liberal when he failed at baseball.

Look, it not a big deal, and I like the documentary overall, and in fact, I think Burns Civil War documentary is one of the best ever, but the fact remains, Burns does let his political bias bleed into his documentaries, and it's not over the top or unreasonable to point that out.

[Brian-Chidester]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

The bias comes in because they're all of a particular political stripe, and not only that, but many are activists.

Probably the only reason he let George Will on the program is because he agreed to describe himself as a bitter conservative.

I'm sure you'd be less than impressed with Burns historical objectivity if his interviewee list included Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, and William F. Buckley among other conservatives, then allowed Doris Goodwin on as long as she described herself as a bitter liberal.

Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley... both of them I respect, even if I disagreed with much of their politics. I don't personally care for much of anything from Buchanan politically, but I have no idea how he feels about baseball. And since most of the people in Burns's documentary talked exclusively about baseball, to me that was all that mattered.