Wondering why...T206 Shag Shaughnessy

[sgbernard]

Ted, I'm not sure I agree: when I sold my T206s in 2007, Shag was selling for a little premium over other SLers, but not much. Basically, I think I remember him selling like one of the rarer SLers, which is fair. Prices are really high now, and I think it's mostly due to people discovering the pose (partly because of this board) and wanting an example. I had never heard the Notre Dame connection, but I had heard on Net54 a dozen times how cool that card with a green background and a popped collar looks. I bet if you search for "popped collar" you'll come up with a few threads. I would reckon it's the image and its popularity, and not Shag's other connections at work here.

This isn't a bad thing, but this board does have a bit of a "kingmaker" effect on certain cards. We're a community, and when someone comes on saying how cool this card or that one is, we're apt to want it, and that's going to drive the price up. I can definitely think of other examples of this (T206 Rhodes arm outstretched, T206 Ritchey with the "dove" come to mind. E90-1 Oakes is another).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sgbernard

Ted, I'm not sure I agree: when I sold my T206s in 2007, Shag was selling for a little premium over other SLers, but not much. Basically, I think I remember him selling like one of the rarer SLers, which is fair. Prices are really high now, and I think it's mostly due to people discovering the pose (partly because of this board) and wanting an example. I had never heard the Notre Dame connection, but I had heard on Net54 a dozen times how cool that card with a green background and a popped collar looks. I bet if you search for "popped collar" you'll come up with a few threads. I would reckon it's the image and its popularity, and not Shag's other connections at work here.

This isn't a bad thing, but this board does have a bit of a "kingmaker" effect on certain cards. We're a community, and when someone comes on saying how cool this card or that one is, we're apt to want it, and that's going to drive the price up. I can definitely think of other examples of this (T206 Rhodes arm outstretched, T206 Ritchey with the "dove" come to mind. E90-1 Oakes is another).

There are thousands of collectors outside of Net54baseball.com but it does seem like when the gang gets on the bandwagon the prices go up. I have seen it happen numerous times. Shag just has a following and if I had to guess it would be all of the above, that makes the price higher than most other SL'ers. When I picked up my E222 Shag (along with my AWA), many years ago, from my now partner Scott B., I posted it on the board and Scott Forrest said he thought it looked like Dracula. Now every time I see a Shag I think of Barnabus Collins...kind of weird, I know.

[sgbernard]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are thousands of collectors outside of Net54baseball.com.

Leon, first, yes, he looks like Barnabas Collins, but that makes your card distinctly "Non-sports" and it doesn't fit into your collection, so you will have to sell it to me.

Are there really thousands of collectors for pre-war cards that aren't on Net54? I've been here long enough to see, ahem, "splinter" groups form, and some of these groups have gone their separate ways.
I guess there are the whales who don't really post, and a couple dealers who don't. But I would wager that most people who are buying T206s will google "T206", find the board, and head that way at least once. At least they find "OldCardboard" and then they click on the link here. Am I exaggerating to think that 50-75% (maybe more) of people who collect pre-war at least lurk on this board? I've never been to the National, but at the Philly show, most of the people I see are those that I have seen on this board at some point. I think we have more power than we think to influence a card's popularity (and price).

[toppcat]

I had to pay about triple book for my example last year and was happy to nail it, having lost out on quite a few prior. The whole Southern Leaguer/Rockin' Do/Historical Figure/HOF'er-here-and-there appeal of the card has to have an effect on it.

[T206Collector]

...is all I can think of when it comes to this card, which also reminds me of the Rhoades Arm Extended hype of a few years ago.

[Leon]

I should have qualified my response a little bit. I think if we were to say "serious pre-war baseball card collectors on the internet"....then I think we capture a majority by some measure...maybe just a little over a majority but I would think at least 51% have at least seen (or heard of) Net54baseball.com. I was sort of thinking ALL baseball card collectors, and in that case, I think we are a very small fraction of total baseball card collectors. I would guess a very, very small percentage. All that being said I don't know of any better forums for pre-war baseball cards but I am biased. best regards

[rhettyeakley]

Her is some Shag errata I have posted in the past...


post #1
Some career highlights of Shag:
-Notre Dame Football player (1901-04) -also played baseball there
-Purported to have introduced the Option play to American Football
-Minor League baseball manager for 3 decades
-President of International League from 1936-1960
-Canadian Football Hall of Fame
-Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame
-First cards were produced around 1910 (T206, E222, & T209-2)
-Last card was the 1964 Topps Award Banquet set (Card also features Jackie Robinson)

post #2
Shaughnessy had a very long career as a baseball player, manager, and then became president of the International League for nearly 30 years, that is what (in my opinion) makes him a more desirable card to have than any other SL card. Not to mention he was captain of the 1904 Notre Dame football team. He is also a member of the Canadian Football HOF (was also head coach of Clemson a few years after John Heisman), and is in the Canadian baseball HOF. In all seriousness Frank Shaughnessy is one of the most important "forgotten" sports figures of the early 20th century.

New Post-------------------------------------------------------
**It is no coincidence that over time people that were once viewed as "commons" are found to be much more than that. Just recently it was discovered a player the T209-2 set was a longtime coach of the South Carolina FB team (making him more desirable), the E254 of McCarthy that had sold as a common for years is know known to be a young Joe McCarthy, the 1919 Zeenut of Driscoll is the FB HOFer Paddy Driscoll, etc. etc. Also, keep in mind for a LONG time 1919 Black Sox cards sold for little to no premium over commons (except Jackson of course)

Much of this is due to the internet and the ability to do a lot of research in a short amount of time (something nearly impossible until the net came about). Shag has more going for him than a lot of people that are overcommon (ie Fred McMullin).

Whether he sells for more because he is viewed as being tough (to the t206 collector), the strange image (to the novelty card collector), or because of his historical significance (to the collector of the history of the game--I would include myself here) it all adds up to the card selling for more than your average T206 southern leaguer.

-Rhett

[pgellis]

I thought that I had heard that a few years ago (or more), someone decided to try to corner the market on the T206 Shaughnessy card. They bought up all the examples that they could get their hands on and then, later, talked up the buzz on the card to try inflate their manufactured scarcity of this card.

Maybe just a rumor, but that is what I recall hearing about this particular card.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by pgellis

I thought that I had heard that a few years ago (or more), someone decided to try to corner the market on the T206 Shaughnessy card. They bought up all the examples that they could get their hands on and then, later, talked up the buzz on the card to try inflate their manufactured scarcity of this card.

Maybe just a rumor, but that is what I recall hearing about this particular card.

I think Huggins of Huggins & Scott had 27 of them at a recent Sun Time show.

[terjung]

I always thought it was due to the combination of his name and his hair that made it stand-out and more highly collectible.

[MVSNYC]

i believe it was Huggins of Huggins & Scott, who has been collecting them, he said "just because he likes the pose & the green background". i'm sure that has effected the price.

at the Nat'l 2 years ago, he had TONS of them in their both.

[ethicsprof]

i still think old hippies cherish the card because of the hair style!

best,
barry

[bbcard1]

I picked up a Canadian Goudey of Shag...the playoff system he designed and that bears his name is still in use in some leagues, I understand.