Where have all the Cobb HINDU's gone.....?

[caramelcard]

Thanks Ted,

Just to follow up a bit...

I have seen the Cy Young with Red Hindu. A friend of mine has an example and I know it's legit.

I do remember (and I'm sure you do too) the rebacked green cobb with red hindu which was an obvious reback job on ebay many years ago. That card was just silly. I'm not familiar with your brown hindu reback.

When I asked you about the brown hindu whether or not if was yours, I was referring to the graded example that was in the thread that I included in my last post.

That was another example of a Cobb Bat on with brown hindu. If Aaron still has the scan and sees this thread perhaps he'll post it again.

The red hindu/red cobb was a high grade example. One would think it would be fairly easy to spot a reback job with that card, but you never know with PSA handling and encapsulating the card.

Thanks Ted! I hope one day we can confirm one.

Rob

[tedzan]

Rob

I can add two more significant "fakes" to the mix that have been graded (4's or 5's)....that I have seen.


T206 Cobb (bat off) with a PIEDMONT 150 back....a NO-NO F/B combo

T206 Joe Doyle error with a POLAR BEAR back....Doyle error only exists with a PIEDMONT 350 back


I'm sure other some other Net54er's can chime in with more "altered" cards that they are aware of.

Meanwhile, don't discount the "Factory #649 factor" regarding Cobb's that I have presented here.


TED Z

[tedzan]

Dave

Sounds like you agree with my T206 "6-card" basic denominator theory. Anyhow, let's further consider the Sweet Cap 150,
Factory 649 sub-set. I think this was initially a 36-card design and ALC removed a subject (perhaps, either Cobb or Plank).
Whatever, that's besides the point here. Check-out this comparison of 1st series Detroit players......

Sweet Cap 150 (factory 649)................Brown HINDU

.................................................. Donovan (portrait)
Killian (pitching)..............................Killian (pitching)
O'Leary (portrait)............................O'Leary (portrait)
Schmidt (throwing).........................Schmidt (throwing)

Continuing.........

Sweet Cap 150 (factory 649)................Brown HINDU

Jim Delehanty....traded to Detroit 8/09.......DITTO

Tom Jones....traded to Detroit 8/09...........DITTO


I think the above data illustrates that there was not a "diabolical scheme" NOT to print Detroit players with HINDU or SWEET
CAP 150 (f649) backs.

So then, why did ALC not print Cobb with these T-brands ?

The "Factory #649 factor" mystery thickens ? ?


TED Z

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Dave

Sounds like you agree with my T206 "6-card" basic denominator theory. Anyhow, let's further consider the Sweet Cap 150,
Factory 649 sub-set. I think this was initially a 36-card design and ALC removed a subject (perhaps, either Cobb or Plank).
Whatever, that's besides the point here. Check-out this comparison of 1st series Detroit players......

Sweet Cap 150 (factory 649)................Brown HINDU

.................................................. Donovan (portrait)
Killian (pitching)..............................Killian (pitching)
O'Leary (portrait)............................O'Leary (portrait)
Schmidt (throwing).........................Schmidt (throwing)

Continuing.........

Sweet Cap 150 (factory 649)................Brown HINDU

Jim Delehanty....traded to Detroit 8/09.......DITTO

Tom Jones....traded to Detroit 8/09...........DITTO


I think the above data illustrates that there was not a "diabolical scheme" NOT to print Detroit players with HINDU or SWEET
CAP 150 (f649) backs.

So then, why did ALC not print Cobb with these T-brands ?

The "Factory #649 factor" mystery thickens ? ?


TED Z

Ted:

The 6 denominator looks like a winner to me. Now, as for Detroit players, the fact there are that many Detroiters on Brown Hindu in series 1 helps solidify my Detroit distribution theory from the Rochester factory #649 I think.

I still wonder if Cobb had an exclusive local or regional promotional or services deal in Detroit that prohibited his appearance on cards destined for that city and environs. And don't forget that newpaper article (at work and can't search for the link right now) previously posted here from 1909 that mentions Cobb and Wagner being in short supply, seemingly therefore in the 150 series cards. I can't recall the town from the article so let's call it East Apple.

Wagner is once thing but Cobb being mentioned in the same breath but obviously not being as rare could be the result of inadvertent selective marketing. Suppose a run of cards was made and obviously a finite number of backs could result, so let's say the Brown Hindu run is done being printed and it has no Green Cobbs on it. That same sheet or run of 35 subjects is then printed for the East Apple market with a more common back but still minus the Green Cobb even though there was no reason to exclude him except in Detroit, it's just there are fronts printed that need to be used, or backs that need fronts that are already composed.

Sweet Caps with Wagner then arrive in East Apple and then they run some other sheets in the 150/350 series for this particular market that have the Green Cobb and we get to the 150/350 portion of things and the Green Cobb is finally hitting the streets down there as well, resulting in the newsman's observation Cobb and Wagner have finally been spotted.

Hope that makes some sense, I am going from memory at the moment but there had to be some geographical distribution arrangement for each run of cards and in some cases specific players and of course, whether a 150 or 350 series marketing plan made sense. Pulling Cobb from the Detroit packs makes little sense unless he was prohibited from appearing or they deliberately held back to sell more cigs but I think we have seen evidence elsewhere they overprinted cards to sell product and did not shortprint them for the same purpose.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong as Dennis Miller used to say.

[rman444]

Ted,

In your opinion, is this a card that has been rebacked and holdered by PSA in error?

[caramelcard]

Thanks for posting that Richard.

Why do folks think this is rebacked? Is there anything that suggests it is?

If it is rebacked, it's by far the best job I've ever seen. Usually, even from a scan you can see a bit of discoloration around the edges or slight adhesive discoloration somewhere throughout the card. Never say never though.



Rob

[tedzan]

You asked...." In your opinion, is this a card that has been rebacked and holdered by PSA in error? "

That is the one and only.....and, yes I am one of several "dinosaur" collectors that are skeptical of this card.

And, the fact that it is graded is immaterial. We just cited several re-backed T206's in the prior posts on this
thread; and, everyone of them has been graded at one time or another.


T-Rex TED

[chaddurbin]

that cobb looks damn good to me, nice and clean...could've been rebacked at the original factory . if it's really rebacked and someone could've done that good a job...then wouldn't it be easier for them to do a known back like cobb bat off/uzit or drum?

[tedzan]

If you haven't seen this Matty that I alluded to in an earlier post, then check it out......

http://www.t206museum.com/page/discussion_4.html

It makes the Red Cobb/Red HINDU look like a "pretender". You have to realize that professional paper restorers are
working on these altered cards. I know of such a professional that restores artifacts dating back to centuries-old
stuff. You would be amazed at the restorations that they can achieve.


Rob A

With respect to Red HINDU, in an earlier post you noted Brian W's Johnson (pitching) card as being one of a kind.
Trust me, there are more than one known. They might not be as pretty as Brian's....but, it is one of the cards in
the Red HINDU population that exists in multiples.


Ted Z