W600 Signed Cy Young - Now Authentic?

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by canjond

I hope so for the buyers sake. I wonder, with no know D.T. Young exemplars/samples, how one authenticates such a piece?

How does one authenticate any rare sig? I personally think the entire signature authentication process is a bunch of BS, but that's just me. Slant flow and pen pressure... give me a break.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Bicem

How does one authenticate any rare sig? I personally think the entire signature authentication process is a bunch of BS, but that's just me. Slant flow and pen pressure... give me a break.

Jeff, it is ultimately a question of trust. It's a darn good thing I'm not famous. My signature changes slant and flow everytime I sign anything

[barrysloate]

Even if this is the only D.T. Young signature, wouldn't the "Young" on this W600 have to match pretty closely with later "Cy Young" signatures? I'm not an autograph expert, so I'll leave that to others to determine. Maybe Jodi B. or someone else has an opinion he can share.

[henson1855]

Jsa has made a number of notable blunders as of late,personally I would think twice before buying anything Jsa has authenticated,anyone interested can refer to www.autographalert.com

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by henson1855

anyone interested can refer to www.autographalert.com

Cool site. Not being an autograph expert, I found this statement rather interesting regarding the JSA authentication sticker:

"Number one rule of thumb in the collecting business: Never affix a foreign matter to an original item of historical importance. This includes historical documents, maps, original collectibles, coins, stamps, autographs, etc. A professional would never deface a historical piece by putting their official business logo on it. It defaces the piece and irrevocably alters its historical significance and value."

Is that true? And if it is, why would JSA do that?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Robextend

Cool site. Not being an autograph expert, I found this statement rather interesting regarding the JSA authentication sticker:

"Number one rule of thumb in the collecting business: Never affix a foreign matter to an original item of historical importance. This includes historical documents, maps, original collectibles, coins, stamps, autographs, etc. A professional would never deface a historical piece by putting their official business logo on it. It defaces the piece and irrevocably alters its historical significance and value."

Is that true? And if it is, why would JSA do that?

I don't care who does it but putting a sticker on an antiquity is a dispicable and indefensible practice, imo. I have some stickers on items and every time I see them I just think how dumb whoever did that was. It's idiotic!!

[prewarsports]

Wasn't Cy Youngs personal 1889 autograph album recently sold at auction with his name on the cover? I would think that item would have his signature as Denton Young. I will need to see if I remember where that thing was, but I am thinking it was Legendary.

Rhys

[barrysloate]

As I said, I'm not an autograph guy, but there is a leap of faith here.

[HRBAKER]

After all is said and done isn't the authentication a non-guaranteed best guess?

[T206Collector]

....a willingness to pay a premium for something based on someone else's opinion. Take the Cy Young, if there was a video of him signing the card 70 years ago, it would be worth more than anyone's LOA would make it worth. But even there, you would have questions about the authenticity of the video. In the end, if you receive an autograph in person, it is the only way to know it was 100% signed by that person.

People who collect autographs of dead people understand that there is always a leap of faith. They factor that leap into their purchasing decisions. With JSA, it is a slightly shorter leap because people collect JSA certified items and so there is currently a resale market for JSA items. Ditto PSA/DNA.

E.g., I might pay $500 for a JSA certified autographed T206 card that I'd pay $1,000 for if Jeff Morey obtained the signature in person 40 years ago and then sold it to me. It is all about comfort level for each item. And it is similar to collecting high grade pre-war cards while hoping the card had never been trimmed or soaked out of a scrap book.

Finally, all authenticators make mistakes, but I've seen in person and read enough cool stories about what Spence can do well to have a reasonable amount of faith in his opinion.

[collectbaseball]

About six months ago I won this on ebay for $2k and change, but after some discussion with the seller I decided not to go through with the sale. I've been trying to dig up the emails but unfortunately I can't seem to find them -- I remember that there was something fishy about the whole thing... If I recall correctly he said he was sure the card was real but unsure about the signature -- he may have said that Spence declined to authenticate it at one point. I could be getting the last part mixed up with something else, though. I'll keep searching for the emails, hopefully I can find them.

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this... maybe I made a $20k mistake!

[henson1855]

Here is a link to an interesting article how JSA deemed an 1899 letter from Ed Delahanty authentic,when Delahanty's name was misspelled "Delehanty"The letter sold for $30,000.00 in a Hunt auction a few years ago,when the letter was to be resold last year,it was pulled from the auction and determined not to be authentic,needlees to say there is now at least one lawsuit pending againt JSAhttp://autographalert.com/2006-7-12.html

[tinkereversandme]

The authenticating game is all hooey. Why would you think it's unauthentic?

Because authenticators make errors (a lot more than people believe) and let's hope for Jimmy's sake, he isn't passing this thing as a "favor" for someone.

Cheers,

Larry

[packs]

I just don't see how if this is the only ever DT Young signature that anyone would stake their entire reputation behind saying it is likely authentic even though there is nothing to compare it to. Even if JSA thinks that the signature is authentic, I would have a hard time staking my reputation on a maybe. This is going to be a high profile auction. If they are wrong, people are going to know. Would JSA authenticate a Plato signature on the side of some ancient pottery too just because it matched the time period and writing device?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by packs

This is going to be a high profile auction. If they are wrong, people are going to know.

Not sure how anyone can prove one way or the other to say they were "wrong."

[packs]

I don't see how there can just be one. After this auction someone will probably come out of the woodwork with another DT Young signature that may or may not have a little more provenance, which would either confirm or deny the authenticity of this one. At least that is what I'm thinking. Not saying its a bad sig. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't.