Barry Larkin and the Hall of Fame

[Robextend]

I would rank Yount and Smith ahead of Larkin by a fair amount.

Yount reaching 3,000 hits and Ozzie Smith being regarded as the best defensive SS of all time, to me makes them hands down better. The other 4 players I could not speak of off hand, but I know all their batting averages were incredible.

I know Yount for some years was a "compiler", but 3,000 hits is still quite the accomplishment. The fact is that Larkin might have very well reached monumental plateaus, however he could never stay on the field long enough.

Barry Larkin only played more than 150 games in a season 3 times, and between 140-150 only 3 times which means for the rest of his career he never even reached 140 games. I believe part of being great is being healthy long enough to put up HOF numbers. Again I do not look at who is in and judge players who are not because we can do that all day with many borderline HOFers. At the end of the day Larkin doesn't have the numbers to be considered a Hall of Famer IMO.

[D. Bergin]

IMO you don't compare a SS's numbers to an OF's numbers, for the same reason you don't compare a Catcher's numbers to a 1st Baseman's numbers.

I think you compare each player to the peers that played the same position as him during the same era as him.

[JasonL]

You can't start comparing Shortstops and OFers when judging whether or not offensive stats are HOF-worthy. But I'm not sure that's what the others were saying...hopefully not.

Comparing a candidate to others already in is a slippery slope to failure...either an ultra-exclusive club, or a slowly degrading standard of achievement.
the injury issue raised in a previous post is an excellent one, because I think Larkin has all the other makings of a HOFer (winner, A-S, leader, solid fielding)-at least that's my recollection, with the exception of statistical accummulation that would have been possible had he stayed healthy.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by JasonL

You can't start comparing Shortstops and OFers when judging whether or not offensive stats are HOF-worthy. But I'm not sure that's what the others were saying...hopefully not.

I agree 100%, and I certainly wasn't doing that. Chris brought up Robin Yount who split his time between SS and OF, so maybe that is what was referenced. Either way IMO 3,000 hits at any position is going to put you in the HOF pre-steroid era. It will be interesting to see if Palmeiro gets in when he is eligible, but that is a whole other discussion.

Rob

[bcbgcbrcb]

As long as McGwire is not even close, I don't see how Palmeiro gets in either........ The real test will be Barry Lamar Bonds

[T2069bk]

What exactly defines the Steroid-era? Is it McGwire coming up and hitting 49 and the Bash Brothers that followed? or Is it the Big Contract followed quickly by the head of Bonds. How do you define the era and how do you pick and choose who was clean and great and thus deserving of enshrinement? If the stats are inflated because of steroids then why say he was not great because his stats don't match (AKA potentially clean)? A-roid admitted taking steroids but his numbers still deserve enshrinement as mentioned above?

On another tangent about Yount
Biggio compiled as well but did it as a C/2B/CF so what does he go in as- and A-Roid- SS or 3B ?

Finally-
Was Molitor the first DH enshrined and what does that do for Edgar Martinez?

[drc]

Ozzie Smith and Yount are HOFers-- though duly note Yount is my favorite modern player so I am biased. I'm not so sure about Larkin and, as someone said, if you have to think long about whether or not the player is a HOFer, that usually means he's not a hall of famer.

I dislike the idea of numbers quotas, even if informal, as that's how you fill the ranks with the lowly. If you go two years without a worthy HOFer, so be it.

Though the most dubious but common 'lowest common denominator' argument of all is the fan saying "(Unworthy Player X) is in the Hall of Fame and my favorite player (Unworthy Player Y) is as good, thus my player should also be in." As they say, two unworthy players don't make a right.

[Chris-Counts]

Let me try another perspective on Larkin's candidacy. Do you believe the top ten shortstops in major league history are worthy of induction into the Hall of Fame? And if you do, are there 10 shortstops better than Larkin? Wagner, A-Rod, Banks and Jeter are better, and I'll admit Ozzie Smith gets the nod as well. Yount and Ripken get consideration, but only for their longevity. Larkin was a better, more disciplined hitter, had as much power, more speed and a better glove than either one (look up the stats!). Who else is a better player than Larkin? Luke Appling? Arky Vaughan? Joe Cronin? All three were great shortstops and worthy of being in the Hall of Fame, but none is better than Larkin. So is being a Top 10 shortstop not good enough for Cooperstown? If that's the case, they should just put a "closed to new members" sign on its front gate ...