T206 antecedents.Photography and Lithography behind the T206s.

[E93]

Barry,
If you were unaware of Scott Forrest's site, this might be of interest.
JimB

http://runscott.homestead.com/T206Origins.html

[ethicsprof]

many thanks for the site.
i do see a Conlon 'Bob Rhoads' identified.
i'm still in shock that this area of photography and lithography escaped me during all these years looking at the T206s.
For some reason, i thought Horner and left it that.
Looks like i'm not alone in this, given the 'responses' to the issue re:Conlon
and T206s.

Uncharted territory is always great fun to travel.
Reminds me of the ole dissertation days---remember that time from long ago, Jim.
thanks again,
best,
barry

[marcdelpercio]

Very interesting thread, Barry. I have also been interested in the origins of the photos in this set and the lithography process. Here is a card from my collection. Note the typed or stamped marking on top, "Van Oeyen Photo, 1907". I'm assuming that this refers to Louis Van Oeyen, who was the official photographer for the American League for a few years during that period and worked mainly out of the Cleveland area.

If the photo is correctly dated as 1907, it would seem that there was sometimes a span of a few years between the photo and card production as this is a 350 Series card. Hoffman actually played for New York in 1907 so the caption on the card may be inaccurate or perhaps they just changed the artwork to reflect the St. Louis uniform. At any rate, this is at least an interesting lead towards another photographer who may be responsible for many T206 images.

[ethicsprof]

very helpful insights. Many,many thanks.
This is the first T206 card where i've seen the photographer actually identified.
It may well be, Marc, that the action poses were done by Conlon, Van Oeyen,perhaps others while the portraits are basically a Horner domain.
The latter is certainly what many of us have thought for aeons.
I'd like to see more examples of the photographer w/ action poses--T206 connection but
think it may well be,as i've said, uncharted.

The movement from photographer to lithographer appears to be largely unknown except for the familiar printing process/order of
colors in the process which says more about lithography than lithographer.
Granted I would like to know more about the lithography,too, but am voraciously eager to learn about the artists/ lithographers. I recognize that some may see my use of the word 'artists' as a bit of a stretch but i must say that I
see the move from photograph to the beauty of the T206s themselves as artistry. Certainly, the photography is unequivocally artistry.

any other ideas about T206--Conlon, T206--Van Oeyen connection?
and lithographers?
I understand that this may well be uncharted but want to check it out
with those who may have scholarly expertise in this arena on this fine board.
best,
barry

[Leon]

I think it's well known that Horner did some, or most, of the portraits in T206. Just thought I would add that as I like his photography. Good luck in the quest, Barry.

[ethicsprof]

many thanks for the support, ole buddy. I've been getting more emails than
posts on the thread so input is arriving in all sorts of ways.
You're right about Horner; his portraits are phenomenal.

happy new year!

best,
barry

[Brian-Chidester]

Barry,

Nice work on the Conlon front. Have you gotten any emails about the lithography style? I'd like to know what process was used for painting the photographs. Knowing only the basics about lithography myself, I've read that it as a six-color litho process, but I also wonder about the gloss and drying process of the ink. In some T206 cards, it almost seems like the ink is under another thin layer of clear paper, because you can see the cross-lines in the eyes of the players, if you look through a magnifying glass. American Litho did one hell of a job.

[rp12367]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Very interesting thread, Barry. I have also been interested in the origins of the photos in this set and the lithography process. Here is a card from my collection. Note the typed or stamped marking on top, "Van Oeyen Photo, 1907". I'm assuming that this refers to Louis Van Oeyen, who was the official photographer for the American League for a few years during that period and worked mainly out of the Cleveland area.

If the photo is correctly dated as 1907, it would seem that there was sometimes a span of a few years between the photo and card production as this is a 350 Series card. Hoffman actually played for New York in 1907 so the caption on the card may be inaccurate or perhaps they just changed the artwork to reflect the St. Louis uniform. At any rate, this is at least an interesting lead towards another photographer who may be responsible for many T206 images.

I have this card similar to Marc's, front has typed stating Weasbar? (Buf) Photo 1906 (6 in pencil rest typed). Back has in light pencil W Gasnor (Buff) photo. Not quite sure what these notes mean, any insite would be appreciated.