Rollins- lots of hot air

[Jim VB]

I would never blame the fans directly for the problems of the team. I only ascribe "blame" to them in that they have accepted the status quo and are still willing to allow management to continue down the same paths.

I have respect for all fans, but especially like those, like the season ticket holders of the Cleveland Browns, who try to fight back.


Back in the early 1970's, Steinbrenner bought a team that was in total disarray. They had been bad for 10 years. They lost money. They didn't sell a lot of tickets. They put a poor product on the field. He invested his own money and took big dollar chances. Some worked out fine. Some he was forced to eat. He built the Yankees back to a financial powerhouse.

Fast forward 35+ years and he has the highest revenue team in the league. They draw in the neighborhood of 4,000,000 fans a year, despite ridiculous ticket prices. They have the richest TV deal of any team. And they are a team that expects to be competitive, if not win, every year.

I've asked this before and no Yankee haters ever answer, but what should he do with the money coming in? He continues to plow it back into the team. Should he just hoard it? Should he just record the profit and move on? Or should he continue to demand excellence from his players, coaches and team administration?

He already contributes big dollars ($40.0 - $50.0 million a year) into the weaker teams in the league. Many of them (not all) just sit on it. In 2003, the Marlins used something like $10.0 million (George's luxury tax money) to bring their entire organization and their families up to NY for the World Series (two trips). Yet when the season was over, they had to break up the team for financial reasons.

Look at this spreadsheet:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...XT3cpPRtt9qIGw

Three and four years out, some of these teams have zero payroll obligations! Their management thinks this is the way to run a sound business? The fans should be outraged.


(By the way, this spreadsheet and many more can be found at:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...678860040.html

It's a terrific site that allows you to look, in detail at the salary set-up ov every team.)

[barrysloate]

It's hard to argue with the Yankees' success this year. They seemed to do everything right. The three big acquisitions were among the best in one season in baseball history. The team was exciting to watch and won with great regularity. Even if you don't like the Yankees, and see them as a bunch of bullies, they had a magnificent year.

And it would be nice, and in fact should be mandatory, that if small market teams collect luxury taxes from the Yankees and the like, they should not pocket that money but use it to improve the team. I'm sure the spirit of the luxury tax was to keep some semblance of competitive balance, and not just make those owners a little richer.

[Jim VB]

I agree Barry. Look at these stats.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Income_1.html

Now I know that this is from the 2005 season, but I haven't found any more recent numbers. Generally speaking, the most profitable teams are those that lose. The winning teams tend to break even or lose money.

So I guess, before we attack ownership, you have to ask, do we as fans applaud well run (read: financially profitable) businesses, or should we applaud winning.

Obviously, many owners would prefer to line their pockets, while pleading poverty and continue to lose.

[barrysloate]

Jim- here's my solution to the problem:

Let's say the Yankees owe the Kansas City Royals $2 million in luxury tax. The money should be put in an escrow account, to be used towards a contract for a free agent. If the team can't negotiate a deal they like, the money stays in the account and more money is added the following year. Then the team could have $4 million available towards securing a player.

The whole point of the luxury tax is to create as much competitive balance as possible, so the team receiving it has to demonstrate to the league that that is what it is being used for. Just accepting free money to line one's pockets is a form of Socialism, don't you think?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jim- here's my solution to the problem:

Let's say the Yankees owe the Kansas City Royals $2 million in luxury tax. The money should be put in an escrow account, to be used towards a contract for a free agent. If the team can't negotiate a deal they like, the money stays in the account and more money is added the following year. Then the team could have $4 million available towards securing a player.

The whole point of the luxury tax is to create as much competitive balance as possible, so the team receiving it has to demonstrate to the league that that is what it is being used for. Just accepting free money to line one's pockets is a form of Socialism, don't you think?

Barry,
I agree these small market teams which get the stipend from the luxury tax should have to show where it has been spent before they see a dime.
Jeff

[baseballart]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

...
Back in the early 1970's, Steinbrenner bought a team that was in total disarray. They had been bad for 10 years. They lost money. They didn't sell a lot of tickets. They put a poor product on the field. He invested his own money and took big dollar chances. Some worked out fine. Some he was forced to eat. He built the Yankees back to a financial powerhouse.

Interestingly (or not), this self-published book was written in 1971, when Horace Clarke and Gene Michael were in their prime. (I don't hate the Yankees, for the record) However, as has been pointed out, baseball has had the "haves" and the "have-nots" for a long time--back into the 19th century. Strange that this book was published in the middle of the Yankees' lethargy



One thought that came from Bill Veeck was that there should be no long term contracts and players should be free agents every year. I wonder if that would increase or decrease the level of competition among the teams.

Max

[Jim VB]

Max,

You're going to have to let me know how that book turns out. I just checked Amazon. They do have one copy available. Asking price is $1,000. Sorry, I don't have Steinbrenner-like money!

To Veeck's thought. I think it would be worse than ever if everything was one year deals. When the Yankee's make a mistake, and they often do, they have to pay dearly for it. That's a good thing for competition.

With all one year deals, I think there would be even more movement, and I think the primary driver for premium player movement is the desire to win. The owners may not care, but the best players do.

[howard38]

I think it was Charlie Finley who suggested players should become free agents after every season.

[baseballart]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Max,

You're going to have to let me know how that book turns out. I just checked Amazon. They do have one copy available. Asking price is $1,000. Sorry, I don't have Steinbrenner-like money!

I haven't finished it, but I'm expect it will have something along the lines of "I am a more antique Roman than a Dane..."

[tedzan]

This comment by Al C.ristafulli really reflects the times we live in........

"" If Babe Ruth played today, baseball fans would hate him and say things like "I don't understand how anyone
could root for a fat, womanizing, alcohol-abusing, egotistical dirtbag who cheats on his wife." ""

However, I remember kinder times.

Since 1947, as a 9 year old, I've rooted for the Yankees (we lived 2 blocks away from Phil Rizzuto in Hillside, NJ).
I have been truly fortunate to see some of the greatest players, play some great games in the post-WWII era....
Joe DiMaggio, Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Johnny Mize, Mantle, Mays, Snider, Banks, Aaron, Clemente, , etc., etc.
Some great pitchers....Feller, Roberts, Spahn, Koufax, Gibson, Reynolds, Ford, and Don Larsen's Perfect Game.

Having said all that, I can tell you that every Fall, us kids (and later as teenagers) would enthusiastically root for
our favorite teams. In our neighborhood there were fans of the Dodgers, Giants, Phillies, Cardinals, Indians....and,
I was the lone Yankees fan.

As you know, from 1947 to 1958, the Yankees won 10 A.L. pennants and 8 World Series. My neighborhood friends
did not detest the Yankees, the likes of what you see nowadays......Why so ?......
Reflecting back on those times, the Yankees team consisted of, not one, but several "Derek Jeter's". Berra, Bobby
Brown, Joe DiMaggio, Henrich, Ellie Howard, Keller, Mantle, Mize, Rizzuto. Everyone, regardless team favorite, had
a lot of respect for these guys and their work ethic. Another factor in this equation was Casey Stengel....you just
couldn't help but like this guy.
Conversely, I had great respect for Aaron, Hodges, Matthews, Mays, Reese, J Robby, Snider, Bobby Thomson, etc.

I guess we were young and had not yet learned to detest others. We did not play organized Little League BB. We
formed our own BB games, or played "stickball" every day. Furthermore, we were collecting some real cool BB cards
of our favorites....thanks to the Bowman Gum Co. and Topps.

Indeed, those were tremendous times.



TED Z

[mightyq]

sorry to burst your bubble bob stats, but yankess fans think that buck and mcarver are anti-yankee's...why is it ok to bring up their 04 4 game collapse against the redsox and not their championship record?? dont they go hand in hand? if anyone listened to the "wfan" during the playoffs you would have a heard a ton of yankee fans calling in and complaining about buck and mcarver. on why they bring up past failures. to me thats part of doing your job, bringing up failures and acievements. btw didnt philly fans boo mike schmidt his whole carrer? think about that. mike schmidt the best third baseman of all time.