Rollins- lots of hot air

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Think of poor Mike Mussina. He joined the Yankees in 2001 and retired in 2008. He missed all the championships by one year on either end.

I was thinking about the Moose too!
He retired last year after his 1st 20 win season, so if he chose to
he would have been welcome to join the team at the new stadium.
BUT it might have been at the expense of the Yankees signing Pettitte.

[whycough]

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by whycough

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

Yeah, why even play the games? After all, in a best of 7 series, the most expensive players always play the best.

[whycough]

Jeff: All Yankee fans love to pooh pooh the advantage of the Yankee spending. You claim that the highest priced players don't always play the best, so why do the Yanks pay them? To cover up for poor management? To cover up insecurity? To level the playing field and be good sports?

[JasonL]

I have to say that I try to have an open mind, but hear me out on this series of thoughts.
I grew up in Chicago, and I am a lifelong Cubs fan. I know suffering. I know what it is to appreciate a winning season. The couple of trips to the playoffs that I have witnessed were very special.
I have never liked the Yankees, but I have never disliked them with any true intensity either.
Until I moved out East. And I met the Yankee culture and the Mission Statement that explains any season without a title as a failure. I find that to be excessively hardcore and borderline subpar sportsmanship. Don't misunderstand - I get winning, and I certainly understand goals.
But in this case I also find it to be a gross perversion of your objective, because in a major league sport, the quality and success of your competition is important to your livelihood. This is different than the business world, so while many want to link the two and ask the skeptic "Why wouldn't you do everything you can to win?" - the real question at this point for the Yankees may be something closer to "Are we doing something special?" and I would argue that you most certainly are not doing something special. Not anymore. You are doing something rather ordinary. Since their first title, I think they've won nearly a third of the time.

Hearing the media and the fan base praise this team and this championship just rings so holllow, doesn't it? I mean, they've won 27 of these now, they have the highest payroll in the game that is designed to bring in a squad of mercenaries, and the only expectation is to win everything, all the time, all year long, and every year thereafter. So where's the upside in being a Yankees fan? think about it. All you've got is downside. What fun is that?

It's still an accomplishment. But it was an accomplishment that was paid for in full and fully expected.
YAWN! so what.
you know what I mean? It just seems so silly to celebrate this team and yet another championship with such wild enthusiasm.
I know I look at this with an outsider's lens, and from that of someone who hasn't won in a beyond overdue timeframe, so it's probably fair and right to call me a jealous loser. True enough.
But just so you know, Yankees fans, this looks totally absurd and disconnected with reality from the outside.

No offense meant. honest.
Just some frustrated thoughts from someone who must look into vintage cardboard and research to find a year when his team looked like a champion.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by whycough

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

$88,000,000 here, $88,000,000 there, can start to add up.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by whycough

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

I don't understand your meaning. Would you be happier if the Yankees kept their payroll at $115 million (or some other abritrary number) and just made an additional $85 million in bottom line profit? Should the money just go to George rather than the players?

The fact is that Steinbrenner has built a business that generates more revenue than his competitors. It wasn't that way when he bought the team.

The best players want to go to the Yankees because, yes, they know they'll make the best money in the business, but more because they know they'll be expected to win, AND they know that management will give them every chance to win, every year.

There are many other owners who have more money than the Steinbrenner family. They just choose to not spend it on their baseball teams. That's their choice, but the fans pay the price.

Anyway, if you don't like this system, suggest an alternative.

[calvindog]

Amazing that the Yankees don't spread the wealth around to the other teams (oh wait, they do!) so that they reduce their chances of winning. You'd think that in today's society the Steinbrenners would be more sensitive to the plights of the other billionaire owners.

[base_ball]

"It's not if you win or lose, it's how you march in the parade."

[calvindog]

Jason, I'm not a Yankee fan so I can appreciate your points. Being a Yankee fan is probably more stressful than being a Cubs fan because the Yankees actually are expected to win as opposed to being mired in a culture of failure. I guess it depends on how you look at life: expecting success at every turn can be stressful but one tends to achieve success more often; hoping for the best but being at peace with failure usually produces the opposite results. Of course a zillion dollar payroll does help the former philosophy off the ground.

But to think that the Yankees are the only team which hires mercenaries is just not true as you fully know. Hell, the Brewers traded for Sabbathia last year just to get them into the playoffs. The Phillies did it this year with Pedro and Cliff Lee. At least the Yankees kept their team intact at the trading deadline and didn't have major contributors join the team with two months left in the season.

[JasonL]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Jason, I'm not a Yankee fan so I can appreciate your points. Being a Yankee fan is probably more stressful than being a Cubs fan because the Yankees actually are expected to win as opposed to being mired in a culture of failure. I guess it depends on how you look at life: expecting success at every turn can be stressful but one tends to achieve success more often; hoping for the best but being at peace with failure usually produces the opposite results. Of course a zillion dollar payroll does help the former philosophy off the ground.

But to think that the Yankees are the only team which hires mercenaries is just not true as you fully know. Hell, the Brewers traded for Sabbathia last year just to get them into the playoffs. The Phillies did it this year with Pedro and Cliff Lee. At least the Yankees kept their team intact at the trading deadline and didn't have major contributors join the team with two months left in the season.

to see that they tried to keep the team intact and win with what they had...and it worked. And yes, everyone hires the big guns, or tries to if they can. Your thoughts on stress and success are spot on, of course. Perhaps that is why the Cubs have such a huge fan base...being a Cubs fan is about more than just winning a game or a season. It's not the win that defines you, it's the experience.

I will say this, though, and it runs a little counter to my original post...but then again maybe it doesn't. I enjoyed this year's team more than I have in the past, as they actually seemed to form a team, and I enjoyed the pies in the face and any sign that they had individual personalities. That stuff resonates more with me, as a fan.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Amazing that the Yankees don't spread the wealth around to the other teams (oh wait, they do!) so that they reduce their chances of winning. You'd think that in today's society the Steinbrenners would be more sensitive to the plights of the other billionaire owners.

There is not widespread demand for additional revenue sharing because the lower level team don't want to be forced to actually spend the money they receive.

The current system has two components revenue sharing: national TV money and a luxury tax. This creates a financial dis-incentive for bad teams to get better. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Florida and KC, for example, have most of their payroll covered by shared money. If I remember right, the Pirates, playing in a new, publicly funded stadium, make a profit before they sell even one ticket. Their payroll is lower than the amount of money they receive from the league. Yet each season, we hear that they must sell or trade their best players for financial reasons.

Take a page from European League Soccer.

I would consider taking the 30 MLB teams and putting them in two divisions. A 20 team Major League and a 10 team "AAAA" league. Each year, let the top two "AAAA" teams move up and the bottom two Major League teams move down. The lower league gets no national TV games (or money). They get no All-Stars. They get their own playoffs, but no shot at a World Series, just their own league championship.



Then you'll see who wants to get better. They bad owners, who don't care, will be out in no time.