T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....MISSION COMPLETE

[tedzan]

WOW....since I have reprised this survey, there have been 7 new inputs in a little over a day. However small that might
sound, one has to appreciate that 66 confirmed AB 460 cards stood for over 4 years; and, now we have 73 confirmed.

Eventually, I expect that 47 cards in the 460-only series will be confirmed....the one exception will be Kleinow (Boston).

However, I would be surprised if many more cards beyond the current 30 from the 350/460 series were to be confirmed.






Listed here are the 73 confirmed AB 460 cards. The 350/460 Series subjects are listed first; and, the 460-only Series subjects follow.....


350/460 Series..................30 cards

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wilhelm (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


460-only Series..................43 cards

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bescher (arms above)
Bergen (catching)
Bridwell (cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms up)
Chance (bat)
Chase (Trophy)
Crandall (cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Howell (hands at waist)
Hummell
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Meyers
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait w/cap)


If anyone on Net54 has any AB 460 cards that are not listed here, please show or tell us about them.


Thanks much for your continuing interest in these T206 surveys.

TED Z

[tedzan]

Thanks to a Net54 reader of this thread, I have added 4 more cards to my AB 460 sub-set. Now, I have 66 cards,
and still searching.
My experience indicates that most of the tougher AB 460 cards are from the 350/460 series....e.g. Lajoie, Leach,
Wilhelm, Doc White, etc..
And, some of the tougher ones from the 460-only series are Duffy, Needham, Smith (Chi & Bos), Wheat, etc..






OK, we have confirmed 73 cards with the AB 460 back. Now is not the time to surrender to the Monster....let's see
how many more of the remaining 30 subjects can be confirmed ?

Thanks again for your participation in this T206 survey.


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

Just a reminder....while these 6 super-prints can be found with as many as 24 different T206 backs....
they were NOT printed with the American Beauty 460 back.

Fair warning....if you find any one of these 6 with an AB 460 back....it is a FAKE !




Now, you guys are making me sound like a "genius", when I said in my initial post here that......

" There are 103 possible T206's that could've been printed with the American Beauty 460 back. However,
there are always those tricky NO-PRINTS that keep you guessing. After 4 years of searching for AB 460
cards, it appears to me that approximately 30 subjects are NO-PRINTS. "

OK, we have confirmed 73 cards with the AB 460 back. So surprise-surprise, that does leave us with 30
cards.....and am I a genius ?......I say NO.
Just a lucky guess, or perhaps an educated guess. In any event, I think there are more AB 460 cards to
be discovered. So, let's see how many more of the remaining 30 subjects you guys can confirm ?

Thanks again for your participation in this T206 survey.



T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

Let's give this survey one more go around. We have 73 cards confirmed with the American Beauty 460 back.
This time I have posted the list of cards we are looking that have not been confirmed.


350/460 Series......cards needed with AB 460

Bender (no trees)..............HOF
M. Brown (Chicago)............HOF
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Doyle (bat)
Griffith (bat)......................HOF
Johnson (pitching)..............HOF
Joss (pitching)...................HOF
Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chi)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Seymour (throwing)
Stahl (glove)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing).................HOF
CYoung (glove)..................HOF


460-only Series......cards needed with AB 460

Frill
Herzog (Boston)
Kleinow (Boston)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)


Thanks again for taking the time and effort to check your T206 collections for any of these cards.


TED Z

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Hi Ted,

I was curious and maybe this has been covered but I have a Seymour throwing 350 no frame. Are there 350 and 460 versions with no frame. The only card I have ever had with 350 and 460 backs are the Manning pitching, I still own the 460 but don't remember if the 350 was framed or not.

Lee

[tedzan]

1st......Re..Seymour (throwing) has not yet been confirmed with an AB 460.

2nd......Your Manning (pitching) would have been an AB 350 No Frame (NF).


Lee

To my knowledge there are only 20 of the 55 cards from the 350/460 series
that are found with both the AB 350NF and AB 460NF backs. I will list them
in a subsequent post.


Regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

As requested......

All T206's from the 350/460 series with American Beauty backs were printed without the stylized FRAME
that is found on the American Beauty (AB) cards in the 350-only series. Of the 55 cards in the 350/460
series, some are found with AB 350....some with AB 460....and, 18 subjects are confirmed with both the
AB 350 and AB 460 backs. Those 18 are listed here.


...................Fall/Winter 1910............................Spring 1911


...................Factory 25, VA............................Factory 42, N.C.


Here are the 18 - T206's that have been confirmed with both of the No Frame American Beauty backs.

Burch (fielding)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Wagner (bat/right)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


If anyone here has any new AB inputs that we can add to this survey, please show or tell us. Check-out
your T206's and compare them with the lists posted in this thread.

Thanks much.

TED Z

[tedzan]

One T206 guy with an American Beauty 350 (no frame) back, that you wont find with an American Beauty 460 back, is
Simon Nichols (with bat). Although, this card is classified as a 350-only subject, it was actually intended as a 350/460
candidate. My theory is.....that American Lithographic did not extend this card into the 460 series since Nichols retired
from the major leagues just prior to the release of the 460 series cards.

If someone here has an alternative explanation for this T206 front/back anomaly, please present it ?







Recall that we have confirmed 73 cards with the AB 460 backs....so, when you get a chance, check-out this wantlist
and see if you have any of those cards in your T206 collection.


350/460 Series......cards needed with AB 460

Bender (no trees)..............HOF
M. Brown (Chicago)............HOF
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Doyle (bat)
Griffith (bat)......................HOF
Johnson (pitching)..............HOF
Joss (pitching)...................HOF
Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chi)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Seymour (throwing)
Stahl (glove)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing).................HOF
CYoung (glove)..................HOF


460-only Series......cards needed with AB 460

Frill
Herzog (Boston)
Kleinow (Boston)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)


Thanks much, guys.

TED Z

[tedzan]

Since this thread disappeared below the radar screen, I have acquired 2 more for my set. Only need 5
more to go....that is assuming that the 73 confirmed AB 460 cards complete this Tobacco run.
Any help with these 5 for my set is deeply appreciated.

Baker
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Jennings (two hands)
Oldring (bat)



To date, we have confirmed 73 cards with the AB 460 backs. So, when you get a chance, check-out
this list to see if you have any of these cards in your T206 collection with an AB 460 back.


350/460 Series......cards needed with AB 460

Bender (no trees)..............HOF
M. Brown (Chicago)............HOF
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Doyle (bat)
Griffith (bat)......................HOF
Johnson (pitching)..............HOF
Joss (pitching)...................HOF
Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chi)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Seymour (throwing)
Stahl (glove)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing).................HOF
CYoung (glove)..................HOF


460-only Series......cards needed with AB 460

Frill
Herzog (Boston)
Kleinow (Boston)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)


Thanks everyone for your help in conducting this survey.

TED Z

[tedzan]

A Net54 reader emailed me with a possible sighting of a CYoung (glove) with an AB 460 back. At this point, I cannot
accept it as a confirmed input until I see it, or a 2nd one is reported. This reminds me to introduce the following rule.

Subjects in the 350/460 series that have been confirmed with Red HINDU backs are NOT found with AB 460 backs......
these 2 backs are mutually exclusive in this series of 55 cards (Note, there may be one or two exceptions to this rule).







List of 350/460 Series cards still NEEDED with AB 460 backs....**annotated cards have been confirmed with Red HINDU
backs; and, I do NOT expect these cards to be found with AB 460 backs.

Bender (no trees)...................**
M. Brown (Chicago)................**
Davis (A's)............................**
Donlin (bat)...........................**
Doolan (bat)..........................**
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)........................**
Doyle (bat)...........................**
Griffith (bat)..........................**
Johnson (pitching)..................**
Joss (pitching).......................**
Konetchy (glove low)..............**
Magee (bat)..........................**
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chi)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees).............**
Overall (yellow sky)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)..........................**
Seymour (throwing)................**
Stahl (glove).........................**
Street (catching)...................**
Sweeney (fielding)..................**
Willis (throwing).....................**
CYoung (glove)......................**


You are welcome to prove me wrong regarding this "mutual exclusivity" rule......or, reinforce this rule. Either way, have
fun checking out your T206's "one more once".

OK, you Jazz aficiandos....what great Jazz artist would encore his riff with the lyrics...."one more once" ?



TED Z