OT: How about those Twins?

[yanks12025]

Why should the twins have won game 2, if your talking about the blowning foul ball call then the twins should not have been in the playoffs to begin with because the one Tiger player got hit by the ball in the 12th inning and they never called it. That would have given the Tigers the lead.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Why should the twins have won game 2, if your talking about the blowning foul ball call then the twins should not have been in the playoffs to begin with because the one Tiger player got hit by the ball in the 12th inning and they never called it. That would have given the Tigers the lead.

Amazing that the ump that made that call was once fired by MLB for being incompetent. He was out of baseball until he ran in to a buddy at a casino and got a job in the minors. He then came to the majors when the umps tried their ill-fated strike, as a scab.
That was the worst call I have ever seen in a post season game in 50 years of watching. The next worse was the call at 1b in the StL-KC WS.
Despite the call, the Twins STILL should have won the game. Nathan implodes, Gardy makes some bad decisions, etc. The Twins could have been up 2-1 playing today at the Dome but the more talented team won.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by tbob

Amazing that the ump that made that call was once fired by MLB for being incompetent. He was out of baseball until he ran in to a buddy at a casino and got a job in the minors. He then came to the majors when the umps tried their ill-fated strike, as a scab.
That was the worst call I have ever seen in a post season game in 50 years of watching. The next worse was the call at 1b in the StL-KC WS.
Despite the call, the Twins STILL should have won the game. Nathan implodes, Gardy makes some bad decisions, etc. The Twins could have been up 2-1 playing today at the Dome but the more talented team won.

But you guys should not have even been in the playoffs. You got in because of a umpire making a bad call.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

But you guys should not have even been in the playoffs. You got in because of a umpire making a bad call.

It wasn't the bottom of the last inning. The last time I looked the home team still has a chance to bat in the bottom of the inning.
Apples and oranges.

[nolemmings]

Tbob, you have a selective memory. Seems to me you were ranting back in the first half of the season about how Smith should be fired and the team was no good, etc. and etc. I told you to relax and wait until the end of the season, and guess what, they were there in post-season again.

In '87, the Twins did not go out into the free agent market to acquire those players you named. Reardon and Gladden were acquired by trade before the season began, one considered a has been and the other a considered a never was. Their cost was cheap and they blossomed--something the Twins have enjoyed before. Blyleven had been acquired nearly two years prior, again by trade (for Jay Bell, who wound up scoring the winning run off of Mariano Rivera in the 2001 WS), and was himself in his 18th season by 1987. Baylor was acquired late, playing in only 20 games and retiring after the following season. So there was no magic, open wallet that led to that '87 crown.

In '91, Morris signed as a free agent because no one else would pay what he wanted, and he got to pitch back home. He lasted that one year. Chili Davis was a nice free agent signing, but hardly the kind that leads The Sporting News to stop the presses and generate a new cover. Not really different than signing Joe Crede this year.

The Twins tried to get Cabrera early and didn't really need Pavano until Slowey got hurt and the starters struggled in June. Neither was available at the start of the season, and the price was too high on Cabrera for a long time. And what difference would that have made, really? The very most that I see is that they may have won the division outright and had their rotation set better for the playoffs than having to start Duensing in game 1. That's it. Hardly a reason to break out the torches and/or call for a blood letting.

I haven't looked hard at the upcoming free agents, but can tell you now that things won't change dramatically if at all. The Twins will make efforts to sign Cabrera and Pavano, maybe Crede too, in efforts to show Mauer that they are serious about keeping the core intact. After all, I hear nothing but bitching that free agents leave because the team has no chance of winning, and further bitching that the team does not lock up its good young players while it has the chance. Well, that's exactly what they will focus on this Winter, and if you believe they should do all that while at the same time competing for the Sabathias and Texeiras of the world, I respectfully submit that you're dreamin.

[tbob]

Todd, the Twins are paying Punto more than their #2, #3 and #5 pitchers in the rotation and we all know what a disaster Punto was until the final 2 weeks of the season. The Pohlads (like Griffith before them) are CHEAP. I guess if you want to call it the "Twins' Way," then the Twins Way is to underpay whenever possible, to take reaches in the Draft who are "signable" instead of the best players available (Maurer the exception), and to ignore free agents unless they are scrap heap players like Craig Monroe, Eddie Guardado, Mike Lamb, Livan Hernandez, the steroid 2b from Seattle, Adam Everett, the bust from the Padres, Ayala, the list goes on and on.
You are probably right on the '87 acquistions, a couple of them came in trades and were as you described "never-wases and has-beens."
I don't think I am selective on Buffet Bill Smith. He is a disaster. He got a bag of rocks for Johan Santana when he could have had Jacoby Ellsbury and or Bucholtz/Masterson or Lester. He traded away last year's MVP on the Rays, Jason Barrett who I believe hit over .300 again this year and a pitcher who was the ALCS MVP last year for Delmon Young who is an overweight singles hitter with no power who hits .275 and fields like he is on ice skates.
Smith has been an absolute disaster and I don't think he has redeemed himself with Crede who was hurt half the time and batted about .235 or Pavano and Cabrera. I have to disagree with you on Cabrera, he WAS available this winter. No one else wanted him but the A's and yet we thought Punto and Casilla were going to be the second coming of Nellie Fox and Luis Aparicio and we see where that got us.
A lot of Twins fans are hot at Smith and believe he has one more year to prove he is capable of being a major league GM. I am in that group. Just like last year he needs to shore up the pen. He needs to bring in some right handed power hitting as the Twins look sick against lefties. He needs a real
3b and a real 2b. Tolbert is another .235 hitter and Casilla is a head case. Buscher is a .235 hitter. Smith failed to bring up Valencia and Tolleson to play 3rd and second so we could see how they would fare against MLB competition.
Finally, I will tell you this Todd, down here in the SEC (the best college baseball in the nation) the coaches pray that their juniors they desperately want back are drafted by the Twins because they know the Twins won't pay enough and they will have their players back. The Dean kid, a power hitter, great defensive player and team leader for LSU is a perfect example. The Twins low-balled him and he is back in school.
Jeff is right, the Twins DO have the money, they just won't spend it.

[tbob]

The whiney baby Posada had a big home run too.


Bob, I just looked up irony in the dictionary and found this!

Jeff- Posada should have kept it in the dugout. By throwing it around and making a media event out of bitching because Burnett and Girardi preferred Molina to catch Burnett he came off as a disgruntled, self-serving jerk. I had always liked Posada but he handled it horribly. Besides he looked awful in Game 1 behind the plate.

[tbob]

The Pohlad kids have plenty of money, they just don't want to spend it on the team. It will be interesting to see how much of an attempt they make to sign Maurer over the winter. I can see Buffet Bill Smith (GM) and the FO ending up trading Maurer ala Santana to the highest bidder and getting back a bag of rocks like they did in the Santana deal.
Todd- I get tired of hearing how it is not the "Twins way" to bring in good free agents as an excuse for being cheap. In 1987 they brought in Don Baylor, Jeff Reardon, Bert Blyleven, Dan Gladden and 4 years later brought in Jack Morris, Chilli Davis and we know how that worked out. Buffet Bill could have had Cabrera and Pavano all year long for peanuts if he had gotten off his duff during the winter meetings. Now the latest runor is that in order to sign Maurer there won't be anttempts to bring these 2 guys back next year. But of course we can give Nick "Bonehead" Punto a huge raise and extension and have him hit .230 again, making more than Slowey, Blackburn, Span, etc. Sickening.