Rare Topps Test Issues

[hcv123]

Dave,

Thanks for the update on the 66 punchouts. I bought the 66 PO from the Mastro auction 10 years ago. Unfortunately, I sold it 9 years and 11 months ago. I don't know if you've confirmed through your research multiple copies of any of them , but the one I sold went to a Mays collector, so if the guy who has the small group of them has the Mays (and is not the Mays collector), they produced at least 2.
I too would be interested in taking a shot at buying some/all of them. Larry - Firstly I think you'll need an extra ? in your starting bid - Secondly, I'll split them with you
Any comments/info on the 67 Pinup Sticker I posted?? How about were a guy can get a 1971 Bazooka numbered sheet cut?

-Howard

[sflayank]

hi
yes i should have put 5 ????? in my bid
im just hoping it doesnt need 6
larry

[toppcat]

The '66 Punchouts in the large collection had finished backs from what I remember of it; I can't find the confirming e-mail at present though. I haven't heard from the gent in months but he was hanging on to the cards at least until the economy improves IMO. He didn't seem in a hurry to consign them, that's for sure.

I was trying to confirm the Mays in Mastro so this is good intel here. I believe another Mays exists as well in addition to the one in the gent's collection but it could be the resale of the Mastro one. Our man had duplicate copies of some as well, not sure which ones. I believe 2-4 copies of each probably are known at this point, similar to the pop of the '61 Dice Game cards.

[toppcat]

Oh yeah, the 67 Pinup Clemente Sticker-I want to compare the sig to the one in the latest Clemente thread on this board, which has a solid blue auto of similar vintage. Will try that later if I have time (may not). I am presently thinking that sticker was a one-off produced at Topps as a lark, the quality is realy to good for it to be a fake I think believe.

[docpatlv]

Dave,

I posted the Clemente sig in the other thread. Although the sig on the 67 pin-up is close, I am 99.99% certain it is not legit. I have about 12 Clemente sigs and have collected him for a long time. I did a fair amount of research on his auto too in the past, and I don't believe it's good. I have talked with other serious Clemente collectors over the years, and we've had discussions about one of Clemente's friends (associate?) who used to sign some of his mail.

I have a couple of examples similar to the one on the 67 pin-up that I purchased early on and from experience and discussions with other Clemente collectors I began to differentiate legit and non-legit. Once you've seen a significant amount of signatures, it becomes easier to pick them out.

Mike

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by docpatlv

Dave,

I posted the Clemente sig in the other thread. Although the sig on the 67 pin-up is close, I am 99.99% certain it is not legit. I have about 12 Clemente sigs and have collected him for a long time. I did a fair amount of research on his auto too in the past, and I don't believe it's good. I have talked with other serious Clemente collectors over the years, and we've had discussions about one of Clemente's friends (associate?) who used to sign some of his mail.

I have a couple of examples similar to the one on the 67 pin-up that I purchased early on and from experience and discussions with other Clemente collectors I began to differentiate legit and non-legit. Once you've seen a significant amount of signatures, it becomes easier to pick them out.

Mike

Hmmm-back to the drawing board on the sticker I guess....that's really too bad because now it's just a defaced Topps rarity. Wonder who mailed it to him for his ghost signature?

[hcv123]

I have not had the signature checked out by anyone so I do not know if opinion would leave it good or bad. That said, I HAVE had the Pin up sticker under a 20 power loop. Having been the unfortunate victim of counterfeits in the past, I took a REAL good look at the sticker - I saw nothing that would indicate to me it was a counterfeit. It has been a little while, but if my memory serves me correctly, the print was much tighter on the sticker than on an actual 67 pinup - to me indicating it would have to have been printed from an original source (How did they print these things back then?). Dave if it would help I could do a magnified high res scan of a part of it to share what I saw - even putting it next to a pin up. Probably wouldn't get to this for a while as life is a bit crazy now.

-Howard

[docpatlv]

Dave and Howard,

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. It's just that I was burned on a couple of Clemente sigs early on, and I vowed never to let it happen again.

I remember the name of Clemente's "alleged" ghost-signer, it was Phil Dorsey. It's possible this item was signed in the late 1960's by Dorsey and then the test could have been produced. I don't have the knowledge on Topps test issues that the both of you do, my opinion was only on the auto.

Here are some more of mine to compare:



Here are some that are not mine, but I saved scans:



Note the differences in how Clemente formed the letter "T", also the "Best" in Best Wishes, the formation of "b" in Roberto, the legs in the "R" in Roberto,etc. I would not bet my life on it, but like I said I have seen A LOT of Clemente autos and although there are some variances in his legit signature, they still have the same characteristics.

Mike

[onlychild]

Anyone know where I can get a sheet like this cleanly cut? Here's some incentive - I'd be willing to sell some panels if I could get it cut!!

Don't think it would be much of a problem. I cut three complete 1984 Topps Proof (encased) sets perfectly...each from a single big sheet. Just a fraction off at the start will mess up each new row, the last cards will end up OC.

Had one set graded, went from sheet to slabs with an 8.8 GPA...nothing below an 8. Global was the only one who would grade them (see below). Not sure I would feel very comfortable cutting another collectors cards though.




Kevin Saucier
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