Past events that i will address.......

[E93]

If we don't fight bigotry and oppression when it affects others, what ground do we stand on to ask for help when the bigotry and oppression is directed our way? Those in power (in the oppressing group) have all the more responsibility to stand up against it.
JimB

[calvindog]

Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRtUv97YFco

[2dueces]

Boy I really don't want to chime in on this thread, but like Ron White, I have the right to remain silent, I just don't have the ability.

Two words in the English language that I hate with a passion.

The C word describing a female and N word. Neither belong no matter what point is being made. No exeptions allowed.

[Rob D.]

Please join hands

[calvindog]

Rob, thanks for that. It's all clear to me now, I feel much better. I just needed to be led to the truth. Good thing we've got good (note: not 'great') people like you on the board to lead us in song, as we all hold hands in peace and harmony.

[Rob D.]

Please pass the graham crackers, Jeff, I'm ready for another s'more.

[Wite3]

Just for the record....

I hate the word "tousled" and support Joann.

Joshua

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by E93

If we don't fight bigotry and oppression when it affects others, what ground do we stand on to ask for help when the bigotry and oppression is directed our way? Those in power (in the oppressing group) have all the more responsibility to stand up against it.
JimB

"Those in power"? Do you mean Leon?

[E93]

Originally Posted by Wesley

"Those in power"? Do you mean Leon?

No, I meant anybody in the priveledged group when there is a power differential. When the bigotry is against blacks in America, whites are generally the priveledged/powerful/majority group. When the bigotry is aimed against women (especially when there are 2,999 male members of a group and one female member), it is all men in the group that I believe have a responsibility to stand up against bigotry for justice.
JimB

[Wesley]

Jim,

I'll be honest; I don't remember the exact words Marshall Barkman directed at Joanne. Do you have a link to Marshall's comments to Joanne?

So the only information in that regard is what Joanne posted today, and as soon as I read Joanne's account, I mentioned it was offensive. I believe each and every poster that commented also said it was offensive. I also recall reading then as well as today a number of people calling for Leon to ban Marshall. That said, Joanne's racial slurs and anti-semitic remarks were also despicable, no matter what they were used for. How can anyone dispute this?

Wes

[andybecker]

if i understand what jim is saying, i agree.

when marshall made this remark to joann, more should have stood up for her.

agreed. totally.....as we would stand up for any injustice.

however, in this specific case, i think many members considered the source of joann's attack and let it go....to a point. i think joann's demeanor may have contributed to that. by demeanor, i mean that in a positive way.....what i said earlier..."the voice of reason".

that said, should we have pounced on marshall more. yes, and if i didn't then jim is right....shame on me.

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by andybecker

if i understand what jim is saying, i agree.

when marshall made this remark to joann, more should have stood up for her.

agreed. totally.....as we would stand up for any injustice.

however, in this specific case, i think many members considered the source of joann's attack and let it go....to a point. i think joann's demeanor may have contributed to that. by demeanor, i mean that in a positive way.....what i said earlier..."the voice of reason".

that said, should we have pounced on marshall more. yes, and if i didn't then jim is right....shame on me.

We did stand up for Joann. Most voiced the opinion that it was offensive and this board was not the place for it. Sorry, but two wrongs never make a right. Every new immigrant group that came to this country was oppressed in one way or another, (some much worse than others). I don't see the relationship to using offensive terms and standing up for an oppressed people rights? The voice of reason is to not use those terms ever. That's the true voice of reason. BTW, I'm Irish and Italian and have heard or been called every name related to those nationalities and still would not like to see them spewed on this board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here is a nice example of "noize" from the past, some good baseball card talk.

"Well let's see i fu*&^cked countless models,raised hell whereever i went, and basically tore up South Beach for 4 years. I signed a independent record deal which allowed to me live in a 2.5 million dollar penthouse and have maids walk around naked while a puffed away on the finest of .....while playing a wonderful Fender strat at insane decibels"

[andybecker]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

We did stand up for Joann. Most voiced the opinion that it was offensive and this board was not the place for it. Sorry, but two wrongs never make a right. Every new immigrant group that came to this country was oppressed in one way or another, (some much worse than others). I don't see the relationship to using offensive terms and standing up for an oppressed people rights? The voice of reason is to not use those terms ever. That's the true voice of reason. BTW, I'm Irish and Italian and have heard or been called every name related to those nationalities and still would not like to see them spewed on this board.

joe,
if you read back a few pages, you paraphrased what i said. i'm with you.

i'm just trying to explain my perception of jim's point.

[timn1]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Jim,

I'll be honest; I don't remember the exact words Marshall Barkman directed at Joanne. Do you have a link to Marshall's comments to Joanne?

So the only information in that regard is what Joanne posted today, and as soon as I read Joanne's account, I mentioned it was offensive. I believe each and every poster that commented also said it was offensive. I also recall reading then as well as today a number of people calling for Leon to ban Marshall. That said, Joanne's racial slurs and anti-semitic remarks were also despicable, no matter what they were used for. How can anyone dispute this?

Wes

People, THINK about the two speech-acts for a minute. Joann did NOT make "racial slurs and anti-semitic remarks." She used the offensive terms as illustrations to try to get across how she felt when that jerkweed Marshall unleashed a barrage of misogynistic remarks aimed at her personally. People need to grasp the vast difference between these two types of usage. To equate them, I'm sorry to have to say, is just lamebrained.

[andybecker]

Originally Posted by timn1

People, THINK about the two speech-acts for a minute. Joann did NOT make "racial slurs and anti-semitic remarks." She used the offensive terms as illustrations to try to get across how she felt when that jerkweed Marshall unleashed a barrage of misogynistic remarks aimed at her personally. People need to grasp the vast difference between these two types of usage. To equate them, I'm sorry to have to say, is just lamebrained.

this is a quote from joann's post:
"Or harping on the Jews about their big noses and being greedy (but tink-tink, Cheers!, let's have a toast, right Alan?) "

her words, not mine. and they don't illustrate anything. it's nowhere near the context that she used the n word, which was deplorable.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by andybecker

this is a quote from joann's post:
"Or harping on the Jews about their big noses and being greedy (but tink-tink, Cheers!, let's have a toast, right Alan?) "

her words, not mine. and they don't illustrate anything. it's nowhere near the context that she used the n word, which was deplorable.

If you're going to go to the trouble of quoting Joann, you should at the very least, capture her entire thought, not just an excerpt.

She started that paragraph by saying: "Throwing the sexual stuff at me is no different than... " She then added the illustrations using Black and Jewish references.

SHE WAS CLEARLY MAKING A COMPARISON! She was showing how hateful the comments he made to her were.

How does anyone NOT see that?

And the throw away line to Alan was because he had just finished telling us what a good guy Marshall was.