Past events that i will address.......

jmk59 · #1 09-01-2009, 11:50 AM

Mike,

Then we disagree. Do a search for the threads in question and then come back and see what you think. Marshall once asked - on the board - the last time I was spanked, and that's just a start. Are you seriously saying that that sort of thing is less offensive or intimidating than a racial slur?

Although if a lot of people agree with you, that would explain a few things.

Joann

FrankWakefield · #2 09-01-2009, 11:56 AM

One solidarity post in support of Joann. Thanks for hanging in here!

docpatlv · #3 09-01-2009, 12:09 PM

Joann,

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I don't know you personally, but I was responding to what you had written.

Is Marshall asking you "when the last time you were spanked" offensive? Of course it is, I'm not insensitive to that. It's out of line and not necessary on a baseball chat board, and it's none of his business.

Is it, to me, as offensive as calling someone a nigger? Not even remotely close...Maybe we are different people, but to me racial slurs just cut a little deeper.

I'll leave you with an example. A few years ago I went out with a group of friends to a small, local bar. One of my friends is African American. When we passed one of the patrons in the bar, he said to my friend, "Hey you, get to the back of the bus!" That damn near started a bar brawl. I don't think it would have evoked the same response if my friend had passed and he said "When's the last time you got spanked".

Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree, but again I don't think you have a clue what being judged solely by your skin color is like. Correct me if I'm wrong.

MikePugeda

calvindog · #4 09-01-2009, 12:14 PM

I know no one means to be offensive on this issue, but perhaps you all could edit your posts to remove the n-word? I don't even like to see it in print, even when a point is trying to be made.

docpatlv · #5 09-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Jeff,

That was exactly my point. If you find it offensive to even see the word, imagine being called that.

last time spanked? = offensive
N****R = offensive

Equally offensive (to me) = not even remotely close

Mike

docpatlv · #6 09-01-2009, 12:29 PM

Joann,

Re-read my post, I'm not defending Marshall. I agreed that what he said was offensive, inappropriate, and unnecessary.

I questioned your analogy and the appropriateness of it.

I'm finished with this thread, you all can agree or disagree with anything I've said.

MikePugeda

Jim VB · #7 09-01-2009, 12:31 PM

I don't think any of us (guys) are in a position to judge how much Joann is, or should be, offended by Marshall's comments.

If she says she is offended that deeply, I think we should take her word for it.

Personally, I like lawyer jokes, but if Jeff told me he was offended, I'd believe him.

(Edited to add - And jokes about the newspaper industry just slay me!)

slidekellyslide · #8 09-01-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docpatlv

Jeff,

That was exactly my point. If you find it offensive to even see the word, imagine being called that.

last time spanked? = offensive
N****R = offensive

Equally offensive (to me) = not even remotely close

Mike

Mike, until you are in Joann's shoes I don't think you should be telling her that she should feel less offended.

Al C.risafulli · #9 09-01-2009, 12:29 PM

Being one of the more liberal, PC, bleeding hearts here, it did sting to read Joann's comments.

That said, I think Joann wrote them the way she did to make a point. And I think the point is coming through loud and clear, at least to me.

When Swine Flu made his series of comments toward Joann, I found them to be the most offensive things I'd ever read on this board. The comments were not made to illustrate a point or make a joke. They were made to be insulting and hurtful, to separate Joann from the rest of the group due to her gender, and to embarrass her.

The fact that people are voicing their displeasure about Joann's comments without having voiced similar displeasure at Swine Flu's comments is surprising to me.

I know Leon's job is difficult, and it's tough to play policeman all the time, but the rules of this board as they relate to personal attacks are written in black and white, and in Joann's case, those rules were not enforced. Were the comments written about someone's ethnicity or religion, I believe they would have been.

Joann is my friend, and it absolutely enraged me to see those comments.

-Al

jmk59 · #10 09-01-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docpatlv

Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree, but again I don't think you have a clue what being judged solely by your skin color is like.

Then honestly, I don't think you have a clue what it's like to have some stranger makes jokes about you needing a big cucumber, or something like that, on a board like this. This was a place where I liked people and liked to hang out. This guy said that in front of all of these people - people that are my friends in some cases. Try that on for size sometime.

If nothing else, this has been eye-opening. I think some people honestly don't know what it feels like. That's the only conclusion I can make from all this.

And Jeff, I'll consider editing. But not yet. That's the only thing I've done that seems to have made people even come close to what it feels like inside when Marshall cuts loose with some of his sexual comments and people defend him as an ok guy.

J

andybecker · #11 09-01-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

That's the only thing I've done that seems to have made people even come close to what it feels like inside when Marshall cuts loose with some of his sexual comments and people defend him as an ok guy.

not sure who is defending marshal as a good guy????

joann-i hope you feel better, as i (and probably every other jew or african-american on this board) have been totally offended by your comment.

didn't you parents teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

andybecker · #12 09-01-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

When Swine Flu

sheeeeesh. i'm in the pork business. can we call him H1N1?

andybecker · #13 09-01-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

I don't think any of us (guys) are in a position to judge how much Joann is, or should be, offended by Marshall's comments.

sure we are, if we are jewish or african-american.

slantycouch · #14 09-01-2009, 01:00 PM

On second thought, I'd really rather not get involved.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 09-01-2009, 01:11 PM

Jeff, the fact that you and others cringe in disgust when seeing the N word in JoAnn's post is precisely her point. Barfman's drivel was equally offensive to a woman, but most males are culturally conditioned to that sort of talk so that our threshold is much higher.

I am guessing that after an appropriate interval JoAnn will edit it out....

calvindog · #16 09-01-2009, 01:15 PM

Peter, good thing I've got Joann to tell me how to feel. I don't know how I survived this long without her life lessons.

Jim VB · #17 09-01-2009, 01:14 PM

Joann did not call anyone, of any color or ethnicity, any name! She merely typed the words. She said she had been as insulted as if someone had used those other examples. And some have been deeply offended by this. Understood.

Now, imagine that someone had typed those words and actually directed them at you.

That's what Marshall did, to her.

barrysloate · #18 09-01-2009, 01:15 PM

Look, I also was surprised by Joann's vitriolic response, and my first reaction was she crossed a line. But I also know how deeply hurt she was by Marshall's comments to her, and I think all the fun she had posting on this board went south after he humiliated her like that. It takes a lot of anger to say what she said and I know it came from deep in her gut. And frankly, there are more than a few people here who are pretty angry at Marshall.

And if I had to guess his response, he will say he doesn't care what we think and we're all just a boring group of people. We're not cool enough to understand his rapier wit. Frankly, I think he should again leave the board and this time for good.

jmk59 · #19 09-01-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

and I think all the fun she had posting on this board went south after he humiliated her like that.

I read this today while I was at work and started crying. Literally. I had to shut my office door. And believe me, that is not something that happens often - it takes a lot to get me there. But Barry got it right square - this is exactly what it felt like. His entire post was dead on.

I am going to edit my last post now. Why? To distinguish myself from Marshall. I think it should be clear that I intentionally used inflammatory words to make a point to him, not because I meant them literally (and I very much appreciate the posts plus emails and PM's I received from those of you that got that). But since many were offended, whether I meant it or not, I'm going to edit it. Not bitch about how lame you all are for not getting my drift, not go on about how awesome and courageous I am to be me being me, but change it. Because the last damn thing I want in this world is to be even remotely like Marshall.

We'll see what happens when he posts again. I'm guessing I already know.

And thanks to you guys that did stand up, and Barry for putting great simple words to it.

And on another note - HAPPY 40TH BIRTHDAY TO AL C!! Sorry Al, but I only have an hour left in this day and it was not going to get by me without birthday wishes for your 40th. :-) My Facebook is all messed up and won't let me post comments anywhere, so here it is! Be sure to have a few good beers - even Stroh's works ok - and consider 40 years well lived! :-)

And T - yes, I completely understand why you would so clearly remember the whole bar exam drill after 20+ years. The whole process - both the prep and the exam - is a unique experience. Yeesh. I don't think I will ever forget it.

J

Wesley · #20 09-01-2009, 12:01 PM

I don't disagree with you Joann, and the remarks towards you were offensive. Still, you don't need to include the racial slurs above to make your point.

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