Any Reaction to Legendary Auction Prices

[kenjrrice]

I placed the $20,000 bid actually more to just bid on it. It said "you are the high bidder but your bid did not meet the reserve" and upped the bid to $21,000. The auction ended at that price, reserve not met.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by kenjrrice

I placed the $20,000 bid actually more to just bid on it. It said "you are the high bidder but your bid did not meet the reserve" and upped the bid to $21,000. The auction ended at that price, reserve not met.

Is this new? I wasn't aware Mastro/Legendary had reserves...

[CTDean]

Originally Posted by kenjrrice

I placed the $20,000 bid actually more to just bid on it. It said "you are the high bidder but your bid did not meet the reserve" and upped the bid to $21,000. The auction ended at that price, reserve not met.

I checked my catalogue and lot 76 has no mention of a reserve. So what's the difference in an undisclosed reserve and shill bidding? Shouldn't the lot at least carry a "Reserve" notation?

[daviddbreadman]

The probably have to use reserves now as they probably have to protect what little capital they have. After all they are supposively a start-up company.
They probably have to go into the markets to buy inventory for consignments so that they have something to offer for sale on their auctions. Its not probable that anyone with any brains would consign something to them. They probably have to make sure any capital they probably spent on purchasing items would be recovered in their auctions. They are also probably wouldn't mention anything about these reserves up front because you probably wouldn't bother bidding.

[RichardSimon]

That is what happens when your organization is made up of so many good guys.

[Jim VB]

Don't mean to be picky Richard, but they're great guys, not good guys.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by daviddbreadman

The probably have to use reserves now as they probably have to protect what little capital they have. After all they are supposively a start-up company.
They probably have to go into the markets to buy inventory for consignments so that they have something to offer for sale on their auctions. Its not probable that anyone with any brains would consign something to them. They probably have to make sure any capital they probably spent on purchasing items would be recovered in their auctions. They are also probably wouldn't mention anything about these reserves up front because you probably wouldn't bother bidding.

I am not so sure about this statement. In today's economy and hobby I think reserves aren't a bad thing depending on how they are done. Ask any consignor that has taken a huge loss and they will agree. Sometimes it's better not to sell than to take that big of a hit. Personally, I like to know about reserves if there are any. I doubt they were doing reserves to protect things they might have owned anymore than they would do one with a consignors item(s). Just my opinion on that. As for offering things they might own it is no concern to me unless there is nefarious activity going on. I don't really care who owned an item I am buying unless it's a hobby pioneer and then the provenance is kind of neat. Knowing there is a reserve will sometimes prevent some bidding...so that is a potential explanation on that issue. regards

[Kotton King]

Rather then set a hidden reserve, why not just start the auction at that price? I realize that it might discourage bidders from bidding if the initial price is sky high, but they'll probably loose bidders because of this use of a hidden reserve (unknown until now), because they didn't disclose it.

As for auctions they own:

"the following lots are owned by the auction house, an auction house employee, or a related party of the auction house: 154, 355, 358, 362, 421, 563, 587, 774, 775, 776, 777, 780, 782, 783, 800, 804, 837, 898, 924, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 934, 935, 937, 939, 939, 941, 946, 950, 958, 959, 960, 961, 971, 972, 973, 976, 987, 989, 994, 995, 997, 998."
-taken directly from their Rules/FAQ section

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kotton King

Rather then set a hidden reserve, why not just start the auction at that price? I realize that it might discourage bidders from bidding if the initial price is sky high, but they'll probably loose bidders because of this use of a hidden reserve (unknown until now), because they didn't disclose it.

This is actually appears to be a "double hidden reserve": Not only was the amount of the reserve hidden (which is the traditional meaning of "hidden reserve") but the fact that there was a reserve at all also seems to have been hidden.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Matt

This is actually appears to be a "double hidden reserve": Not only was the amount of the reserve hidden (which is the traditional meaning of "hidden reserve") but the fact that there was a reserve at all also seems to have been hidden.

Um, you may want to change that to triple hidden reserve then; you forgot one.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Matt

This is actually appears to be a "double hidden reserve": Not only was the amount of the reserve hidden (which is the traditional meaning of "hidden reserve") but the fact that there was a reserve at all also seems to have been hidden.

Greg Marmalard: But Delta's already on probation.
Dean Vernon Wormer: They are? Well, as of this moment, they're on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!

[Kotton King]

Originally Posted by Matt

This is actually appears to be a "double hidden reserve": Not only was the amount of the reserve hidden (which is the traditional meaning of "hidden reserve") but the fact that there was a reserve at all also seems to have been hidden.

Haha...nice Matt! It definitely makes sense, even though I had to read it about 4 times for it to make sense.

[Potomac Yank]

"As the Market Turns" ..... or _ _ _ "As the Stomach Turns" ...

[chris]

I'm just happy that I won both lots I really wanted. The Dietsche Postcard set and the Dietsche Cobb Rookie. I thought the set sold for a steal, way under my max bid, which never happens to me..

Chris

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kenjrrice

I placed the $20,000 bid actually more to just bid on it. It said "you are the high bidder but your bid did not meet the reserve" and upped the bid to $21,000. The auction ended at that price, reserve not met.

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

[HeroesOfSport]

I am new to this board, but want to get a few opinions. I'm in the process of putting my first auction together, and have had a few consignors who want to put reserves on items. I usually try to discourage reserves because I feel it actually hurts the bidding potential on a lot. However, some consignors won't consign unless they have a reserve to protect their investment.

Do you think it is better to have a reserve or high starting bid?

[sports-rings]

I feel minimums are bad and they are worse when you don't know if and when a minimum is hit. If the seller must have a minimum, I feel it should be the starting price. If the starting price is too high for some bidders than so be it, at least with this method, the bidders know where they stand are not in for disapointment after they think they won an auction.

[Leon]

My opinion, and this is as a collector bidding in auctions, is that as long as I know what I am shooting for I don't care if it's a higher starting bid, in which case if I am the high bidder at end, and the item didn't meet reserve I will then have a shot at it at the minimum, or if it starts out at the minimum. I don't personally like completely hidden reserves or even worse, not knowing there is a reserve until after I think I won. At least if I know there was a reserve I don't get excited thinking I definitely won it when I am high bidder at auction end. Double or triple hidden reserves are the worst.....Just my 2.2 cents....

[daviddbreadman]

I wish Doug Allen would comment on some of the other questions that have been presented publicly.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Leon

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

Wait - so Ken was wrong about the message he received, but Doug did confirm there was a hidden reserve on the lot?

[CTDean]

Originally Posted by Leon

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CTDean

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

I wouldn't hypothesize too much. I have an email into Doug for clarification. He did go on to to say :

"In total 6 Gibson items and the Mantle glove were the only Sports lots with reserves. Every one of them sold."

I don't want to post the whole email as I think he was frustrated but the pertinent parts have now been posted. Make of it what you want, I guess.

And to Matt- His email seemingly intimated there was a reserve.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Leon

And to Matt- His email seemingly intimated there was a reserve.

To me, that's the bottom line issue that came out of Ken's post. I could care less if the Bob Gibson checks sold or not, but the revelation that Mastro/Legendary is putting double hidden reserves on lots is important.

[Leon]

Doug sent a bit of a clarification on the Legendary "reserve" situation....

this below is cut and pasted but was the entirety of 2 emails.....I hightlighted the one part below, he didn't.....



"Here are the reserves...as bids were accepted the site clearly stated if reserve was met:

1970 Gibson Cy Young - $40k reserve met.
Gibson Gold Glove - $10k reserve met
Gibson Checks - $20k reserve met
Gibson 11 Contracts - $10k reserve not met...Bob accepted bid of $5,500 after auction
Gibson 1964 World Series Ring - $30k reserve met.
Mantle Game Used Glove - $35k reserve met.

Other than a handful of coin lots there were no other lots with reserves in the auction."

Additionally we Do Not bid for the reserve. If there was no competitive bid the person would need to outbid themself in order to progress toward the reserve."

Doug

[Rob D.]

Thanks, Leon.

And thanks for continuing to serve as Net54's Annie Sullivan to Mastro/Legendary's Helen Keller.

[oldjudge]

The fact that the reserve is not bid makes it a lot more palatable to me. At least that way there is no confusing the reserve with another bidder.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CTDean

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

I really don't know the answer to that. I am just the messenger of one email.