Some National Thoughts

[mberkus]

Just a quick note to consider. I hear the same issues that are being bounced around on the thread from our National dealers and our Board of Directors, so the questions and suggestions are not new but still worthy of listening to. It would be impossible to satisfy everyone, just not possible. Families traveling to the National have totally different needs than individual collectors. We tried to work out packages in Anaheim to Disneyland, Knotts, Angel games, etc. but the groups that we did our deals with were totally disappointed with the turnout of response and do not care to work with us anymore. Response was minimal and we were advised to just let those that want to see sights, booked their tickets or times on their own. It became apparent to us that we need to concentrate on our show rather than outside venues. We do try to include all different price hotels in our block of rooms and we usually know the areas well enough to suggest food and entertainment to those that ask but few attendees ask. As for smaller cities, i.e. Knoxville, two problems exist. First, the total amount of exhibit space advertised on their website is 120,000 sq ft. This is on the first floor only, additional floors have a combination of 250,000 sq ft but broken up. We cannot house a National in that small of a facility and certainly not in broken up space and different floors. Second issue is population. We expect at least 50% of our attendance to be of a local nature, within 1 hour drive to the facility. That means that a smaller base population could mean much smaller attendance. My life would be threatened by our dealer base if I made that mistake.

Trust me on a couple of fronts. After 30 years of the National, I am somewhat familiar with the primary issues of hosting a show. The following examples are listed by priority to us, as promoters. 1) facility - must be all on 1 floor with 300,000sq ft min. 2) decorator charge - Cleveland leads in permitting dealer easy set up, that is the absolute primary reason for our repeated visits. We pay the union/decorator $45 per dealer, upfront, to turn their backs on union rules. We do not pass this charge onto the dealer and we pay it for the entire room, every booth, regardless whether the dealer uses the service or not. It is a flat fee to us and run anywhere from $23k to $28K total. Without this, dealers would pay hundreds to wait inline with their inventories and have union workers deliver the stock to each booth. 3) is local population. We would like at least 15,000 local people to join us at the show. We have a local ad and marketing budget of $50,000.00 just to encourage the sports person to either come to buy items or sell what they may have been sitting on for years. 4) local expenses to our out of towners. This includes hotel, food, parking, etc. fees that we try to keep reasonable. 5) hours of the show. We know that 2-3 days is plenty for local attendees but persons who fly in or drive a great distance want as much value for their time as possible. Also dealers need to have a full slate of hours open, to guarantee a strong financial return on their investment. We could hardly expect a VIP attendee to pay $119 for the VIP package and only have 3 days of the show, less autograph tickets, or special product sets. Also, dealers do leave early on Sunday! This is a double edge sword to us. We do not want to impose sanctions on our dealer base. We are not in the police business and the more rules we impose the more problems we all face. Our promoter team has taken it's lumps for allowing dealers to leave early. We have to close our admission booths down at least 3 hours before we are officially closed to not cheat any attendees out of their time on the show and if some booths are empty. This results in a financial loss to us with about an average of 1000 or more attendees come into the show for free. What some dealers don't realize is that many large sales have been recorded by the dealers who stay until the end. But, the bottom line of responsibility, is our job. If we put 10,000 customers on the floor at 4:40pm on Sunday, dealers would stay. We just can't find that formula to gather consumer interest after 2-3pm. We continue to try.

Well, there you have it. The instant guide for promoting a National. On one hand, there is a ton of improvement that constantly needs to be reviewed. On the other hand, we must have done one or two things right, next year in Baltimore will be our 31st annual National. We have weathered the downswing in collecting, the negative press articles, bad economies, loss of local shows and collecting base, and even the attitudes of convention centers who do not want our business. As I mentioned before, we are taking serious looks at Las Vegas, Boston, St. Louis, and anywhere on the West Coast that comes close to matching the above priorities. Baltimore is getting a very strong and positive reaction by our hobby and that is a very good sign. Sometimes it's just up to attitude that can make a difference in how succesful our show is.

Anyway, keep the passion, without it we have no hobby. Even if it's in the form of a complaint. I have grown a couple layers of thick skin over the last 30 years and can handle a lot, just as long as the National survives.

Regards,

Mike Berkus

[Frank A]

Sorry Mike, I don't buy it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dealers on more than one floor. In fact I think the dealers of early stuff would like it better if the new stuff guys were on a different floor. I think the buyers would like it better also. it would make thier search time less. As far as area with easy access Knoxville is as easy or easier than anywhere you have a National. Also the place is large enough for autyograph signings to be away from the dealers floors. Sorry Mike but I don't agree with you at all. Frank

[mberkus]

Hello Frank,

Sorry but you could not be more wrong. The last time I ran a show on two different floor was in 1992, Opryland Hotel. The dealers all complained. The ones on the 1st floor thought that the dealers on the second floor got better traffic and the ones on the second floor thought the dealers on the 1st floor got all the traffic. Double set of ticket takes, double set of security, double set of management needs, load in, etc. Had to refund $35K of dealer tables to satisfy complaints and have the hotel comp 40 room nights. It was close to a riot. Bet you can't get 20 dealers from the National to agree with you. Plus, if you do some checking, you will find you are wrong about the Knoxville CC. Get facts straight first, then complain.

Mike

[Frank A]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike just say that you are happy with having the show in the same area every year rather than give me a line of bullshit. 500,000 sq. ft. is 500,000 sq. ft. Don't insult me with some stupid remark. I CAN READ. If you insist on Chicago every other year STOP calling your SHOW ( and thats what it is) a NATIONAL. IT is nothing more than a regional state show. Complacency will however be the end of your show. Look around at the businesses going under from it. Yours will be no different. People are getting sick of the same old, same old. Wake up.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Frank A

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike just say that you are happy with having the show in the same area every year rather than give me a line of bullshit. 500,000 sq. ft. is 500,000 sq. ft. Don't insult me with some stupid remark. I CAN READ. If you insist on Chicago every other year STOP calling your SHOW ( and thats what it is) a NATIONAL. IT is nothing more than a regional state show. Complacency will however be the end of your show. Look around at the businesses going under from it. Yours will be no different. People are getting sick of the same old, same old. Wake up.

Frank,

You couldn't be more wrong. It's called The National because it attracts dealers and collectors from a nationwide audience, not because it moves around the whole country.

The International Consumer Electronics Show is held every January in Las Vegas. Has been there since 1978. No one is Oslo is bitching that they don't get a shot.


I think the ability to have the entire show on one floor is vital. Splitting us customers is never a good idea. Some of those customers of shiny stuff might be captivated by seeing vintage cards. Also, having the autograph signers close is important. They are there to attract people to the show. If you move people to another location, you defeat that purpose.

I think Mike and his team do a great job or organizing the show. If you don't, I have a suggestion for you. Go to the people at the Knoxville Convention Center and sign a contract to lock it up for a week. Convince some dealers to come and set up. Spend a couple of bucks advertising to collectors and run your own show.

You will soon find out it isn't as easy as you think. Coming on a public message board, using foul language to attack the event organizer, when you clearly have no concept of what's involved is uncalled for.

Disagree all you want, but right now, there aren't five people in the country more knowledgeable about organizing this show. You're not one of those five.

[Frank A]

Didn't ask for your 2 cents and don't need them. Your whole post was about the dealers and promoters. Sorry, BUT THE BUYERS MAKE THE SHOW. No buyers, no show.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Didn't ask for your 2 cents and don't need them. Your whole post was about the dealers and promoters. Sorry, BUT THE BUYERS MAKE THE SHOW. No buyers, no show.

I have never needed your permission to offer my opinion.


After you get your own show up and running, maybe you could start your own message board. That way you'll never have to deal with dissenting opinions.


And by the way, keeping the dealers on the same floor is about BUYERS, not dealers.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Didn't ask for your 2 cents and don't need them. Your whole post was about the dealers and promoters. Sorry, BUT THE BUYERS MAKE THE SHOW. No buyers, no show.

Frank, I think the National is usually held in cities with larger metro areas because there is a greater likelihood of attendance and participation in those places. Knoxville just doesn't cut it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Sorry Mike, I don't buy it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dealers on more than one floor. In fact I think the dealers of early stuff would like it better if the new stuff guys were on a different floor. I think the buyers would like it better also. it would make thier search time less. As far as area with easy access Knoxville is as easy or easier than anywhere you have a National. Also the place is large enough for autyograph signings to be away from the dealers floors. Sorry Mike but I don't agree with you at all. Frank

Frank- this is why this board is good. You can disagree with anyone and give your opinion why you disagree. This argument reminds me a lot, but on a much much smaller scale, of managing this board. What happens is that over time I (and Mike B on the National) get very accustomed to hearing the other sides of the argument why, or why not, something should be done. We (and I am not really speaking for Mike but he will probably agree) have to make the best decision for the masses. I have about a third of the experience of running this board (and being on it) as Mike does at running a National show. His reasoning is tried and true, to try to appease the largest numbers of dealers and collectors. We absolutely KNOW we will not please everyone. It just isn't possible. We can try as hard as we want but as long as humans are involved we know it's an impossibility. I appreciate Mike coming on the board and explaining a lot of the reasoning that goes into picking a venue for the National. It's certainly not as easy as it might sound. As a pseudo-dealer/auctioneer and collector extraordinaire , I think they do a fine job. WE could have the show in the New Mexico desert and I would be happy. For me it's all about having a 5 day party with my collecting friends. I absolutely love it...take care now and please keep voicing good, bad and indifferent opinions. It's the only way we can evolve and continue the vitality of the hobby. best regards

ps....by the looks of the local workers I think I see a niche to be filled, for dentists, in Cleveland. I thought I was in the Appalachians.

[HRBAKER]

"ps....by the looks of the local workers I think I see a niche to be filled, for dentists, in Cleveland. I thought I was in the Appalachians."

No Leon, no stills in plain sight.

and Mike, thanks for all of your efforts. I had a great time in Cleveland, Chicago, or wherever. If you have it, they will come.

[Frank A]

LEON; Absolutely!! You would travel to do the National wherever it is. And so would most big dealers. However with the show in the same place all the time it has left its status behind. There are other collectors in other cities who would like to go and spend some money at this show. I did not go this year because of ths $600 it would cost me to go. Also it gives dealers in other areas a chance to set up. I do not like the way it is now set up, it needs to advance to the next level. Frank

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Frank A

LEON; Absolutely!! You would travel to do the National wherever it is. And so would most big dealers. However with the show in the same place all the time it has left its status behind. There are other collectors in other cities who would like to go and spend some money at this show. I did not go this year because of ths $600 it would cost me to go. Also it gives dealers in other areas a chance to set up. I do not like the way it is now set up, it needs to advance to the next level. Frank

I hardly think of me as a big dealer but I have been called worse. Now, if we are talking circumference then I am getting bigger all of the time. I too would like a change of venue but it's just not that easy. I absolutely can guarantee Mike, and the other directors on the board, want to do what is best for the show. There is not one thing that you have thought of that Mike and crew hasn't discussed a hundred times. I very much trust he knows what is best and will continue to do what is deemed best. Please try not to get too personal too. You can throw the BS flag, I do it frequently, but please stay courteous. We are all friends and collectors here..I haven't seen anything over the top but just a friendly reminder..... thanks again.....

[Frank A]

BAKER; Your remark about the people in the Appalachain's was uncalled for. Obviosly they are much better people than you.

[mberkus]

OK Frank, I see that the passion is still alive. Dollywood, here we come! I will recommend to the board that we take the show to a new level of 3 floors, 2 or 3 days of admission, regional dealers taking priority over 31 year table holders, and minor league ball at it's finest. We will probably all be able to stay at your house, given the high points of the "new Regional" convention.

Just kidding Frank, keep your sense of humor and come to Baltimore. I'll give you a free weeklong pass.

Regards,

Mike